approximatley 33.5 million acres in alabama and 1.5 million are public lands or 4.4% I dont think public land pressure is the problem

That’s an oversimplification of the situation……..

ikillbux, do you also go by the name Chuck? What would you propose as the solution? Lower limits and shorter seasons?

I don’t have any data to support my guesstimate, but I’d guess predators are carrying a 10:1, maybe 20:1 kill ratio over a turkey hunter. So……..

Well duh, cause it’s worked everywhere else……

The coon population is out of control. Highest I’ve ever seen it. The amount of tracks on roads and creek crossings is crazy. I caught seven coons at one trap location early April.

Also - avian predators are on the rise in AL.

There’s a chance we have the highest coon population and avian predator combination we’ve ever seen in the south.

I understand Ikillbux
Hunters are the only turkey predator not considered around here

I was thinking about this thread today

For the past several years I’ve felt we’ve been heading towards a European based hunting scenario

Private lands with lots of resources have the ability to finance game to the point of whatever it takes
Preserves or high fences provide the experience whether real or imagined but enough folks willing to pay.


There’s been a lot technology changes too. From live scope for crappie to cell cams sending pics of a strutter in a field or big buck around the shooting house. Hunters head to the woods knowing what is there. They no longer have to actually be there to find out. Technology informs them.

Bust out how many killed per acre that might help tell a tell.

I agree especially about the flying cats, coons around here seem about the same

Turkey hunters in the other hand, they’ve definitely increased

Hunting pressure has not significantly increased in every area of AL in the past 30 years. Some areas - yes - I understand that.

But consider this - there’s a point where all factors of turkey hunting come together- with small parcels of land with fragmentation and rural human populations - that the limit one hunter can kill - doesn’t matter if it’s 1 bird, or 1 million. A turkey limit changes nothing.

Turkey247

We had turkeys all around here in 80s and it was always said they were hard to hunt so many didn’t play it was fishing season. Just like most didn’t hunt the rut in January. It was the norm around here.
I started chasing turkeys in the early 90s and have killed limits pretty much every year until the last several. I retired for lack of a better words a few year back. Declining population was one reason. The other was the shear number of hunter encounters I had and not always good ones. The competition factor kicked in and I didn’t care to participate.

Both the shear number of hunters and the actual number of hours afield have increased significantly around here. So it’s more than a double whammy.

Hunters afield not only educate the gobblers but disturb the nesting hens too.
So does that exacerbate the problems? Probably lowers gobbler killed

I get that ALL locations do not suffer from this. I can only speak of my experiences

Private properties may or may not have these experiences. I hunted both private and public
I know guys that own large amounts of continuous land and they are experiencing the same thing. One land owner quit letting anyone hunt their land, themselves included.

The map I posted is where I hunted mostly but I used to kill birds on a few WMAs. Especially the ones opening on March 20 and then March 15. Sam R Murphy became overwhelmed with hunters so I quit going. We opened April 1.

I’ve noticed birds using habitat that was once not considered suitable for turkeys. Killed many in the thick stuff.

I could go on and on. I’m trying to be a realist about my experiences. I started on properties that held unreal numbers. The main property I hunted was 400 acres it so unreal, was nothing to hear 25 birds a morning in the draws and up and down the creek. There were mornings I heard more I bet. Also can tell you others will tell the same thing. We often talk about it. I figure those days are gone for us.

Duck hunting has had the same problems

Hunters have not only increased but hunting tactics have, which also include hours per day in the field.
Travelers have also increased and so have hours afield with them in particular

I get the push back from folks with good steady numbers and work done on properties.

It is what it is

I’m that guy that pushed for a 3 bird limit back when I was killing 5 birds a year.

I guess the real question is sustainability of turkey numbers versus turkey hunter numbers. There’s a balance but what is it?

It’s interesting that most of the southern states are experiencing the same problems.

I understand you scenario and happened with deer hunters and doe killing like hogwild pointed out.

Wildlife managers have a tough task of balancing hunter sentiment and wildlife numbers. I enjoyed watching the Express Boat series on duck hunting. Larry made some very astute conversations.

I will say historic areas with good turkey numbers seem to be falling and areas that never had turkeys are now experiencing good hunt-able numbers.

So from an overall viewpoint what’s the difference overall.

From carter's post:

>>> I started on properties that held unreal numbers. The main property I hunted was 400 acres it so unreal, was nothing to hear 25 birds a morning in the draws and up and down the creek. There were mornings I heard more I bet. Also can tell you others will tell the same thing. We often talk about it. I figure those days are gone for us.<<<

I'm always astounded to read posts like this, and I've seen a good number of them over the years from different posters, so I am not doubting the truth of it. But I have been hunting turkeys a long time and have killed well over 200, and I have never heard anything like 25 Easterns in one morning. I don't think I've ever heard double digits in AL. I remember a morning in 1970 when I probably heard 10, but a lot of those were jakes. Years ago on the Coosa WMA I could get on a mountain on a still morning and hear 6 or 7, but I was able to hear over several sections of land and most of them were far away.

I don't think what you experienced was in any way sustainable. There were no laws or regulations that could have kept that going. I think it was just the normal thing that happens when turkeys are first reintroduced. The predators don't know what to do with them and the turkey population takes off, only to drop off as the predators adapt. I think this happens most everywhere, but I never experienced anything like you did.

It has always been normal and always will be that most of the eggs don't get to hatch. And most of those that do hatch are quickly eaten by something. If your land has limited cover, they will eat nearly all of them. If you are hunting public land that is basically unmanaged, the predators are going to keep the population down.

One thing I think the dcnr is doing right is moving towards different seasons and regulations for that 4% of the public land.

Honestly it was unreal and I believe your words are true to unsustainable

The thing is if you look at the map I posted. The land I hunted was up and down that creek. The 400 acres is right where the icon is. Out farm is the last of the fields along the creek at the bottom of the map.

I always assumed the turkeys migrated to the area along the creek. I’d assumed the nesting and brood tearing as more desirable there. They’re spend a lot of their time in the hills to the east during winter.

There has been a lot changes with timber and fields so that is a factor.
I hunted the TVA property along that creek first. Used to put in and float down before the season. I’d literally count around 300 birds in 4 miles along that creek to where we parked it for the season. Had a biologist in the canoe with me.

This year I finally saw a flock almost as big as I used to see at our farm. 72 birds in it at end of deer season. Used to see 100-150 in those fields when someone else owned it.

I ran into a couple of older gentleman this year on skyline and they were claiming the area we were in had a lot more birds until the state trapped them for restocking efforts. I’d love to know if that’s true.

There is public hunting land in Coffee, Dale, Geneva, and Covington counties...look at the explosion of kills...hmm.

They didn’t trap them to relocate. They trapped them and put transmitters and tags on them to monitor nesting and how long the gobblers survived. Auburn did the 4 year study. I turned a couple of transmitters in during that time.

Carter, if you saw a flock of 72 this past season that sounds like you have a great population. And after all these years maybe that is sustainable. I saw that many in a flock in Perry county back in the 60s. It was right after the turkey population took off after restocking, and they were in a big pasture near the Cahaba river. I've not seen that since, and we've never had a flock like that on our place.

The largest winter flock seen on our land was just a couple of years ago, and it was maybe 50 birds. My neighbors have really whacked the timber around us since then, so I would expect our population to start trending down. The habitat won't be the same, and no turkey lives his life only on our land.

I really don't know how you could complain about a lack of birds when you are seeing a flock of 70+. The biggest flock I've ever seen around here is probably 40, and I've always felt like I've had plenty of birds to hunt.

This is the first time in years to see a winter flock of this size. Past two years have been good hatches

The entire area of the map I shared is still down. Nothing that big or half that size seen elsewhere. Like I mentioned we’d see 300 birds in a 4 mile stretch back in the late 90s right before season I’ve always felt they migrated towards that bottom.

There’s hope, yea. We still are down overall compared to. It has been mentioned we were expiring a boom during those early years I started.

Other areas are still down at down.

In decent habitat what would be considered good kill rate per acreage. 1 gobbler in every
1500 acres decent or terrible?

There was a post in FB about a gobbler that was captured and banded in Georgia and killed in Alabama that had traveled 55 miles or so