I think you and I have much different histories with turkeys.

I thought that hens taking flight from 1/4 mile away was just normal turkey behavior. The turkeys on our place in Perry county have never tolerated a vehicle being in sight at any distance. Let them see your truck and they will fly far away. This mystical place where you can hear 25 in a morning and turkeys aren't afraid of a truck is a place I would like to visit.

Maybe it's a good thing that I haven't experienced that, or I would want it to be that way all the time. I don't doubt your experience, and I have seen turkeys not show fear of moving vehicles when they are in fields beside a road. Places where they aren't used to seeing them means they will usually spook when they do see one.

This sentence is one I would address:

>>>’I’m only here because I’m not understanding how a hunter killing and or harassing turkeys daily doesn’t have an effect. I don’t get it<<<

An effect on what? Pressure surely affects the turkeys, and I have advised hunters for decades to follow Rule #1 - don't scare the turkey. If you scare the gobbler away you lose the opportunity to kill him. I wouldn't think that any experienced hunter would think that hunting pressure doesn't affect turkeys. It surely does, but the question I think we are discussing now is whether that hunting pressure results in a lower poult production.

My opinion, and that's all it is, would be that in most cases it doesn't. Much of my public land experience was on the Coosa WMA in the 70s and 80s. Some folks regard those as the good ole days, but I thought it was a zoo. I couldn't believe the amount of pressure put on those turkeys, but every season there seemed to be just as many gobbling as it was the year before. I continued to hunt it through around 2015 when most of the land was taken out, and never saw any population drop.

But if hunting pressure really can reduce the poult recruitment, it seems reasonable it would happen on the hard hunted WMAs. There is no way that my land is ever going to have anywhere close to that sort of pressure. So if there is real proof that hunting is hurting the 4% of public land, then by all means, do whatever is necessary. Just limit the cure to the places that might have a problem.

Well, I am headed to the farm to spend the next 2 days working on turkey habitat. A good day to all!

Agree that pressure shouldn't effect poult recruitment. Maybe hunters bumping nesting hens or, God forbid, disturbing young poult/hen groups. But pressure on gobblers effecting recruitment, I don't see it. That being said, your experience and Rule # 1 PCP is highly relevant in regards to public vs private. Again making new research on private land that much more important. On one of the small places I hunt (350 ac) I am the only hunter. Flushing a gobbler may make the place gobbler free for days-weeks. Even if bumped in the middle of the property, they may end up across the line in minutes. I hunted a pair (probably the same 2) for a week and they never knew I was on the place in several encounters. I slipped away from them 3 times when I saw them make it to a field with hens and I realized I was beat. I would have crawled up to the edge 10-20 years ago and killed one but I don't want to kill one that way anymore. I finally got them to the edge of a field before the hens showed up for a shot by my daughter. They finally realized they had been hunted. On private land you can hunt them carefully and they don't know you are there. On public land the mentality is "if I don't get him or try, someone else will" so they put pressure on them every day they gobble. Those turkeys KNOW they are being hunted.

"Just limit the cure to the places that might have a problem." I argued this since the delay in opener was proposed - to the CAB

"Well, I am headed to the farm to spend the next 2 days working on turkey habitat. A good day to all!" Ill be doing the same. Still have a few hundred acres to burn in Coosa, Bullock and Montgomery counties.

I cut and pasted these from last year at the farm. They literally walked out while we stood there talking. They were maybe 75 yard or so
The second pic I’m in my f250, stoped rolled the window down and took pic. I’d just drive past and turned around at the trace and came back and took their pic.

Beautiful pic

I got a theory and it could very well be wrong but it’s the only logical reason why I can come up with for why some folks would be against a trapping incentive…….

Right now everyone is clammering about “the turkey decline” and looking for a solution. This perceived decline, real or not, is driving a demand for someone to do something about it………and the main thing being preached for folks to do is “habitat management”…….If you were to create a trapping incentive and it was successful in creating a surplus of turkeys then the clammering stops and the demand declines.

Because people that do control thier predators don't want to pay for those that don't .

Or

Have the ones that do trap say heck with it and let a trapper come trap the bounty .

I call bullchit........

Everyone is going to all these great lengths to try and help the turkeys and suddenly pitching in a dollar to run a trapping incentive is just too much????……….yeah right.

Ain't the money , damn point of it .

For some things I got no problem throwing a dollar in , a bounty ain't one of them . Like yote bounty why pay a bounty when you got hunters thst won't shot them on sight .

Now you wanna talk about getting more wardens I'm all ears .

I don’t really see a point…….We’re currently shortening seasons and lowering bag limits as the answer……But some of y'all are saying that you don’t want to give a single dollar toward an alternate solution that would actually work (and also in the process bring back “trapping” to the main stream)…….. because the whole group or others might benefit from your one dollar???......


Once again........

Ok I'll put like this .

If they to damn lazy to put any thing into improveing the land they hunt then f'ckem.

If they got money to join a club then they can put in another dollar or 50 to hire a trapper.

No reason why we as a group should pay to improve the hunting for a few .

I give the state more money I want more wardens .

The state wastes enough of my money already, why would I want to give them more on a program I don't believe will make a difference. Show me the data

Because as of right now it’s a hell of a lot better idea than the alternative being put forth. In the meantime the whole group will continue to suffer and have further restrictions placed on season dates and bag limits………..Keep taking away too many of those and suddenly it’ll be just like PCP describes where there isnt the same incentive to do habitat management at all for turkeys…….

I bought a lifetime hunting/fishing license many years ago and I’m told now I have to pay for this and that when I was originally told I’d never have to pay for hunting/fishing again
So what makes you think they’ve all of a sudden seen the light of where problems can be solved
If money was the answer then all our problems would be solved because they get plenty
As I stated earlier The only incentive we will ever see is the one in our own imagination
If you’re waiting in hopes of this regime to incentivize anything you’re living a miserable existence

I understand what your promoting. I get it. More trapping dang sure wouldn't hurt. Just getting any agency on board I don't think will happen.

I do honor your thoughts on the subject and would never be little them.

I will oppose additional restrictions (since I don't think they will help turkey populations state wide). I will also oppose bounties on predators (since I don't think they will help turkey populations state wide). I have seen NO compelling evidence indicating any positive effect of either.

The state doesn’t have any issue creating baiting permits that exacerbate coon populations……..why should they get a pass on doing something to help alleviate some of it??

I couldn't agree more. I know your trying to come up with ways to help. I commend that.

Are you saying you wouldn’t support it because it wont produce extra turkeys in virtually every county?.....It wont bring back “trapping” and get more people involved??.......It wont give all hunters a way to have more skin in the game???.........It wont increase hunter satisfaction??.......Because I see it having a net positive effect on all of those……. What are the potential negative impacts or risks for trying?? Pretty low arent they???


How many days do y’all think they would have to take off of the season and birds off of the bag limit for that approach to actually make a positive change to the population???.......I’m guessing it’s fairly significant……Realistically like a 2 bird limit or something……or better yet, how far do you think they’ll decrease it before they quit trying??

What other solutions are there??......Its not like we’re gonna suddenly discover new means of creating turkeys…….We’ll still be sitting here talking about habitat 10 years from now and barely enough will have changed to balance out the amount being lost…….Where is it y’all plan on doing anything to make a difference???

Do you turkey hunt, CNC?