Yeah, I’m guessing its also higher deer densities on average in the southeastern counties ……The negative impacts are being seen sooner in the lower deer density, more highly fragmented areas. ….Most of the southeastern counties have good deer populations and lots of large clubs/landowners for the small property folks to siphon off of. A lot of those northern counties didn’t really have any cream to be skimming off the top to begin with ……...

As a result, I think you’re seeing a little more prolonged climb to the harvest peak in the southeastern counties. The small property hunters there can keep going back to the well for longer without it running dry basically. It’ll eventually peak and decline but I’d bet the decline won’t be as dramatic as the counties in the north. You’ve still got the bigger properties in the south to prop up the populations which will help buffer the impact in comparison I would think

Look at what happened when we passed the 2 a day doe rule…..You had numerous years of doe harvest increases as populations were being killed off followed by a decline in harvest once we had the populations at lower levels and opportunities decreased. It’s the same trend occurring now, we’re just changing a different variable this time that’s getting more deer killed….. I don’t think just telling hunters “not to shoot does” is going to work the same this go round though. It’s hard to tell all of those small acreage properties to just not have an impact.

Simple solution: limit the number of does in zone C to increase the herd size (2 or 3 limit should be fine for even the most hungry hunters on top of the 3 buck limit).

Yep this seems like the simple solution. Eventually AL will have to put some limit on does. I think AL has gotten away with no doe limit (or I guess it's 100+ deer) due to a residual attitude of "don't shoot does", but that has faded.

I could have very easily killed 10-15 plus does in very limited sits this year. I'm sure most others who hunt with any regularity could as well.

The only conclusion I can draw thus far is about the folks hunting SE AL... them boys down there love to kill a doe at the tail end of the season.... why'd they wait till January? The dern rut is on like neck bone down there and what happens.... the doe blasting goes through the roof? Whut?

I don't think what we are feeding them has anything to do with that that's just trigger control. Where's all the spikes and 4 pointers fellas? Where'd you get that blood on your Jeans Shorts? ..... C'Mon Man!


Florida hunters are who I'm blaming there's a bunch in that area. We need to move this discussion over to the FLDeer message board and see what they've got to say for themselves..

FL hunters dont have anything on Alabama hunters, as far as the killing every deer they see goes, and especially not on the LA boys that ride over to hunt the SW side of the state. I had two LA boys one year on a big lease I had, and they were super great guys, funny as all get out, but they were a bunch of deer killing fools. They shot something every time they went in the woods and when they cleaned a deer, every bone on it was glistening white. Not even enough meat left on a rib to attract ants. My lab, when I would bring her up, used to love to grab a deer leg and run around chewing on it. When those boys pulled into the skinning shed, she didnt even bother walking back there. She knew every shred of meat, gristle and sinew, was going in that big cooler. They'd bring 120 quart coolers and leave every weekend with them full. It was time to go home when the lid on the cooler would no longer close. LOL.

We had a group like that when I was in the big lease. I appreciated them doing the work the rest wouldn’t do.

We had so many hunters claiming they were killing too does when in fact our population was continuing to grow. Fortunately we had the habitat to support and protect a growing herd.

On 5000 acres we would kill 50-55 deer with 30-40 being does. A few years we killed a few more deer overall, yet half the hunters thought we were killing too many does. Perspective is a funny thing coming from each individual. We had browse lines from the front to the back. Greenfields were eaten down and had guys saying the fields just weren’t growing and needed fertilizer. Of course that changed when each field ended up with an exclusion cage. Cost the club some money but those thoughts went away.

I was always intrigued by how each group of hunters expressed differing sightings and thoughts than other groups. One group would only see does, another only bucks. One group would see small bucks rubbing huge cedar trees and we had no mature bucks. Yada yada yada

I mean the list goes on and on when research has shown numerous old wives tells to be just that.

I was in that club for 14 years and we experienced a huge die off from blue tongue in 2006? and deer sighting never checked up. I was so concerned when I was finding all those dead deer that late summer and fall. I called friends that were biologist and was told it seas bad all over the south and thruout Midwest.

I figured it happened locally because we’d gained so much in population that caused more deaths. Less numbers would’ve had deer more spread out maybe?

I’m not denying killing too many does will happen, of course it happens.

I’ve just seen so many hunter preconceived ideas get squashed by research and especially gps studies. I don’t know if they’re as easily accessed as when I was in QDMA and biologist would link research papers in the forums. Haven’t been there in years. Noticed they rebranded I’d assume from all the backlash. 😝

I'm no game biologist but I can absolutely promise you, zero chance that bucks breed most of the does that come into estrous on my lease in Bullock. Not even the second time. Based on camera counts and observations, my does outnumber bucks by at lease a 8-1 margin and that's conservative. Last week I saw 15 deer at one sit (same place you tracked that one last year) including 1 buck. The other day when I shot, I had seen 9 deer including a 4pt and the 9pt. I hardly hear a shot around me. I'm watching 6 does on a plot camera right now (no corn) and no bucks. If I can kill a doe or two this weekend that will bring our total doe harvest to 6 in 2 seasons. I'm not gonna slaughter the does but I definitely need to take a few more out. Maybe then I'll stop getting pics of spotted fawns in April.

Doe numbers should be based off of the carrying capacity of the land…..If the land is in good shape and the deer are in condition then its not an issue with too many does….its an issue with hunters shooting too many bucks…..Shooting does will not fix that. It will only cause you to have less deer and less bucks produced.

Exactly. Had a biologist come to my place, just a few miles south of where eyedoc hunts. Told me , we were nowhere near healthy herd capacity. Had several hunters tell me I had too many does, needed to start shooting them. Biologist looked at browse line and food,I asked the hunters why they thought we had too many, and their answer was cause I see 20 does and no bucks. Kinda crazy how we come to the conclusions we do. It hasn't been until recently you've heard of hunters saying they have too many deer, kinda like a banker saying I have too much money!

Are you saying to quit hunting that property to let buck numbers catch back up?
Shoot does to maintain population of does and no bucks

They never will if birth rates are 50/50 buck to doe.


How does it pan out?

CNC, it’s not that simple.

I said that shooting does wouldn’t fix the problem. If I’m not mistaken the property Doc is referring to is 100 acres or less….or there abouts…….If all the folks in the “neighborhood” are collectively shooting too many bucks then him shooting his does is just gonna mean he’ll have less deer….It doesn’t do anything to change the over harvesting of bucks that’s occurring. You’ll just end up with a situation where the land could support more deer but you’re keeping it suppressed because everyone is whacking bucks at a high rate.

I'll add this too……..I’d recommend that Doc not shoot his does just from the standpoint of a hunting strategy…..The best you can do in a situation like he’s got going on is to sit back and cherry pick the bucks you want to shoot……If you want more meat then strategically select a doe one day when it doesn’t alert and educate the others….If not though, just leave them alone and let them stay unpressured……Just let it be and enjoy seeing deer on each hunt. Don’t worry about shooting does just to give away in an attempt to “manage” the doe herd and late fawns for the bigger area. Its false logic to think that shooting your does is going to improve your hunting experience. That’s just my opinion.

While the facts actually lead to the contrary in some situations. That’s why deer management is not a “do this for all situations” strategy. There’s some properties that have been managed for many years with a pretty significant doe harvest, very selective and low buck harvest, and they’re some of the best places you’ll ever set foot on. 🤷🏼‍♂️

The post was referencing Bamaeyedoc's situation.......not ALL scenarios under the sun......Sorry if that was confusing.

The underlying sentiment is too many does are being killed period.

Falls under the not all scenarios are the same
My personal experiences of deer hunting forty plus years doesn’t always align with others. I try to keep an open mind and realize what’s being seen isn’t always the case.

I learned something today that I thought no way. No reason as why it should yet GPS proved me wrong. I’ve been adamant no way it would happen yet it did. Things that make you go hmmmmmmm…….:

Feelings shouldn’t be a part of facts.

I can assure you my hunting experience will be great. I’m blessed to have a place to hunt where I see deer on every sit and when I carry my wife, she’s going to see deer. If I carry my kids, they’re going to see deer. I’m going to shoot a couple of does for meat and enjoy it. It’s not a game management strategy because it’s such a small tract but I guess I can see why it was taken in that context tho. Carry on. Let’s get to 40 pages!

No number problems in Mobile country. I saw 20-100 every day just driving the 8 miles back and forth from work and often will count a herd of 40-60 at a time.

Killing more does to produce more bucks is like killing more hens to have more gobblers. Thats not how it works imo. A lot of deer kept within its carrying capacity is a good thing. One thing y’all aren’t speaking on is buck dispersal and how much of a thing that is. I don’t believe does disperse like bucks do. I can’t tell you how many 2.5 and 3.5 your old bucks we let walk, only for them to take up a new home a couple miles away the following year. If your property can sustain it, why not have it. I can’t get behind the too many does mindset. If you start shooting a bunch of does your going to start seeing less deer, I’ve already been down that road with the doe slaughtering of the 2000’s

Whatever happened to a balanced deer herd?

Like a friend does with his place of a little over 200 acres. He went to his neighbors and they set goals and worked together. One adjoining neighbor sold and a new person moved in and disrupted the process. Soon the neighbor was upset with not seeing deer. My friend finally convinced the guys to quit shooting all the young bucks and they’re back to seeing and killing good mature bucks.

A mature buck is gonna be 5.5 to 7.5 yr olds. If folks could get past shooting and let those 3.5 and 4.5 yr olds walk they’d see something in then. Keeping the doe population in check so as to maintain a 1/1 or as close to it as possible

Here’s a question, how many does can a mature buck service?

Is he like a herd bull with cows or is he a lesser breeder.
Watched a Marty Stouffer documentary on the life of a whitetail buck was really interesting. The buck died of stress at age 4.5. He bred himself to death. Stress is a terrible thing and is a killer in both humans and animals alike.