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Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: SwampHunter] #4132833
05/17/24 05:59 AM
05/17/24 05:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,927
colbert county
cartervj Online content
Freak of Nature
cartervj  Online Content
Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,927
colbert county
Originally Posted by SwampHunter
There are way too many for a bounty to help and you put a $10 per head on them and we would break the state of alabama! Hogs are like cogon and fire ants...once they get established they are impossible to eradicate.



And probably increase hog numbers. Those crack heads would start raising them for easy money. It’s funny how most good intentions backfire.


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: YellaLineHunter] #4132858
05/17/24 07:05 AM
05/17/24 07:05 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 14,142
Over yonder
E
extreme heights hunter Offline
Booner
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Over yonder
Originally Posted by YellaLineHunter
If sooo many people have problems with hogs then why is it like pulling hens teeth to be able to go hunt there. Even if you pay. I’ll never understand. Kinda like it’s the kings problem.


because people in general don`t like to abide by rules. give an inch take a mile.

Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: slippinlipjr] #4132877
05/17/24 07:42 AM
05/17/24 07:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 72,323
Luverne, AL
Skinny Offline
GUVNER
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Luverne, AL
State level economists have long known that every regulation, no matter how small, will result in years of continuous revenue. Small regulations always turn into cumbersome expensive decades long revenue streams for state governments. Its the same from the lowest to the highest levels of government. Because hogs are also an agricultural product and wild game animals, that means two big government agencies with a lot of regulations and fees attached to everything they do get to set the revenue stream rules for the hogs. So because hogs are an integral part of the economic system, the hog problem will never go away.


"Never Trust Government" -- Smart people.
"The Great thing we should Fear and the Weird Thing we Trust is Elon Musk" -- Me
"You can be broke but you cant be poor." -- Ruthie-May Webster
Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: BAR1225] #4132881
05/17/24 07:55 AM
05/17/24 07:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,239
Auburn University
S
Steve Ditchkoff Offline
8 point
Steve Ditchkoff  Offline
8 point
S
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,239
Auburn University
Our data have shown that the average home range of a sounder is about 800 acres, but can range from around 400-1200. In all of the studies we have conducted, pigs tend to show very high site fidelity...they haven't been found wandering outside of their home range, despite claims from individuals familiar with the population that they do. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but we haven't documented it, and I haven't heard it from any of my colleagues. Now, saying they have high site fidelity doesn't mean that they won't move into an area that is pig-free. In some of our removal studies, sounders moved into areas that we had cleared of pigs in less than a month. This tended to occur with populations that were at high density, and so there were probably nutritional restrictions and they shifted use of space to ease the nutritional stress.

There is definitely not a one-size fits all explanation for pigs, or any critter for that matter. But, in general, pigs don't wander much...which is the reason why they expanded their range so little despite being in North America since the mid-1500s. It wasn't until we glorified pig hunting with cable television in the 80s that they started expanding their range quickly...at 70 mph in trailers behind pickup trucks.


***************
Steve Ditchkoff
College of Forestry, Wildlife and Environment
Auburn University
***************
Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: Steve Ditchkoff] #4132885
05/17/24 08:00 AM
05/17/24 08:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,927
colbert county
cartervj Online content
Freak of Nature
cartervj  Online Content
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colbert county
Originally Posted by Steve Ditchkoff
Our data have shown that the average home range of a sounder is about 800 acres, but can range from around 400-1200. In all of the studies we have conducted, pigs tend to show very high site fidelity...they haven't been found wandering outside of their home range, despite claims from individuals familiar with the population that they do. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but we haven't documented it, and I haven't heard it from any of my colleagues. Now, saying they have high site fidelity doesn't mean that they won't move into an area that is pig-free. In some of our removal studies, sounders moved into areas that we had cleared of pigs in less than a month. This tended to occur with populations that were at high density, and so there were probably nutritional restrictions and they shifted use of space to ease the nutritional stress.

There is definitely not a one-size fits all explanation for pigs, or any critter for that matter. But, in general, pigs don't wander much...which is the reason why they expanded their range so little despite being in North America since the mid-1500s. It wasn't until we glorified pig hunting with cable television in the 80s that they started expanding their range quickly...at 70 mph in trailers behind pickup trucks.



A friend told me about his hog hunting buddies bringing hogs from Arkansas to MS back in the early 90s. Asked if I wanted to stick some with them. Said it was a rush like nothing else. They’d video the hunts and kills. I bet now they wished they didn’t.

Had a guy tell me they was gonna drop some at the farm. Told him real quickly I better not see it or hear of who. A guy across the creek had hogs barns so I bet he definitely wouldn’t have been happy. That never happened as far as I know. Did have a sow with piglets dig up a field but they got took care of quickly. Haven’t seen any since.


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: Steve Ditchkoff] #4132888
05/17/24 08:04 AM
05/17/24 08:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,864
lauderdale co
B
brushwhacker Online content
8 point
brushwhacker  Online Content
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,864
lauderdale co
Originally Posted by Steve Ditchkoff
Our data have shown that the average home range of a sounder is about 800 acres, but can range from around 400-1200. In all of the studies we have conducted, pigs tend to show very high site fidelity...they haven't been found wandering outside of their home range, despite claims from individuals familiar with the population that they do. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but we haven't documented it, and I haven't heard it from any of my colleagues. Now, saying they have high site fidelity doesn't mean that they won't move into an area that is pig-free. In some of our removal studies, sounders moved into areas that we had cleared of pigs in less than a month. This tended to occur with populations that were at high density, and so there were probably nutritional restrictions and they shifted use of space to ease the nutritional stress.

There is definitely not a one-size fits all explanation for pigs, or any critter for that matter. But, in general, pigs don't wander much...which is the reason why they expanded their range so little despite being in North America since the mid-1500s. It wasn't until we glorified pig hunting with cable television in the 80s that they started expanding their range quickly...at 70 mph in trailers behind pickup trucks.


This is correct in my area . Less than 1000 acres per sounder . Some around here would bed at same spot for month then move on. If I got them used to eating corn they would stay . If have lots acorns it’s really hard to get them come to feed till late when acorns was gone .


Brushwacker
Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: LIOJeff] #4132896
05/17/24 08:15 AM
05/17/24 08:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 8,946
Alabama
Shaneomac2 Offline
14 point
Shaneomac2  Offline
14 point
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Posts: 8,946
Alabama
Originally Posted by LIOJeff
I bet if hogs were destroying pine saplings that were just planted the timber industry would come up with an answer for them.


Georgia Football..Acts like Bama but has a trophy case like South Carolina.
Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: Steve Ditchkoff] #4132928
05/17/24 09:03 AM
05/17/24 09:03 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,623
Alabama
J
jmj120 Offline
10 point
jmj120  Offline
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J
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,623
Alabama
Originally Posted by Steve Ditchkoff
Our data have shown that the average home range of a sounder is about 800 acres, but can range from around 400-1200. In all of the studies we have conducted, pigs tend to show very high site fidelity...they haven't been found wandering outside of their home range, despite claims from individuals familiar with the population that they do. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but we haven't documented it, and I haven't heard it from any of my colleagues. Now, saying they have high site fidelity doesn't mean that they won't move into an area that is pig-free. In some of our removal studies, sounders moved into areas that we had cleared of pigs in less than a month. This tended to occur with populations that were at high density, and so there were probably nutritional restrictions and they shifted use of space to ease the nutritional stress.

There is definitely not a one-size fits all explanation for pigs, or any critter for that matter. But, in general, pigs don't wander much...which is the reason why they expanded their range so little despite being in North America since the mid-1500s. It wasn't until we glorified pig hunting with cable television in the 80s that they started expanding their range quickly...at 70 mph in trailers behind pickup trucks.


Do they not follow the food? We had 3 sounders on 1800 acres but when January rolled around we hardly saw a hog on camera or while hunting

Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: slippinlipjr] #4132955
05/17/24 09:38 AM
05/17/24 09:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,860
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline
Dances With Weeds
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Awbarn, AL
From what I've seen it seems like periods of drought is what gets them moving around.....


We dont rent pigs
Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: CNC] #4132958
05/17/24 09:43 AM
05/17/24 09:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 72,323
Luverne, AL
Skinny Offline
GUVNER
Skinny  Offline
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Luverne, AL
Originally Posted by CNC
From what I've seen it seems like periods of drought is what gets them moving around.....


That does make them move for sure. I have used LiDAR topographic maps to trace water flows across the land on paper. When that paper comes with me to the field I find that hogs have already done the paperwork for me. Just follow their trails and you will find water.


"Never Trust Government" -- Smart people.
"The Great thing we should Fear and the Weird Thing we Trust is Elon Musk" -- Me
"You can be broke but you cant be poor." -- Ruthie-May Webster
Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: slippinlipjr] #4132964
05/17/24 09:57 AM
05/17/24 09:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,239
Auburn University
S
Steve Ditchkoff Offline
8 point
Steve Ditchkoff  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,239
Auburn University
We have not seen them following ag crops, despite being told that they did on an area. We did, however, see considerable movement off of Ft. Benning back around 2007 when we had the massive drought.


***************
Steve Ditchkoff
College of Forestry, Wildlife and Environment
Auburn University
***************
Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: slippinlipjr] #4132968
05/17/24 10:01 AM
05/17/24 10:01 AM
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Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
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Awbarn, AL
I was hunting in Society Hill the first year they showed up on some of the Torbert property there……They moved in one really dry summer in the mid 2000’s….It may have been that 2007 year....The same area now 20 years later is just insanely covered up….Individual sounders might not be “dispersing” but the population growth that’s occurring is definitely expanding their footprints and I think it probably happens a lot when these drought cycles roll around. All of these built up population centers have to go find the remaining water and it probably pushes a lot of them into new territory where some of the end up staying.

Last edited by CNC; 05/17/24 10:08 AM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: slippinlipjr] #4132991
05/17/24 10:42 AM
05/17/24 10:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,860
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline
Dances With Weeds
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Posts: 24,860
Awbarn, AL
It looks like to me that the populations just push further and further up/down the watersheds……..It gets dry and the populations start spreading out…..If a population in an area has grown a lot since the last time it got dry, dry……then they push out further along the watershed fingers than they once did because theres more pigs now looking for a water hole….That’s how they’ve been slowly filling in the area I’m describing more and more ….For example, the heavy populations that have grown in central Macon Co have pushed out the Calibee Creek drainage down into Shorter and on into the Tallapoosa river and southern Elmore……At some point that spilled over into Line Creek and it’s covered up too with heavy pig populations in Fitzpatrick and Hardaway. Those pigs populations that are showing up in Elmore Co came from the ones in Macon expanding out the watersheds during drought……At least that how the setup looks to me…..


Last edited by CNC; 05/17/24 10:43 AM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: Steve Ditchkoff] #4132992
05/17/24 10:48 AM
05/17/24 10:48 AM
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abolt300 Offline
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Originally Posted by Steve Ditchkoff
We have not seen them following ag crops, despite being told that they did on an area. We did, however, see considerable movement off of Ft. Benning back around 2007 when we had the massive drought.


The drought aspect is a very interesting and plausible theory. Unfortunately, we have water on our place 24/7, 365, drought or flood. Also I find it very interesting that there's no proof of them following ag crops. We do not have any big ag around us so no personal experience with that aspect but I would have felt certain they would follow massive seasonally available food sources, based solely on how easily they are trained to bait.

Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: slippinlipjr] #4133002
05/17/24 11:22 AM
05/17/24 11:22 AM
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Auburn University
S
Steve Ditchkoff Offline
8 point
Steve Ditchkoff  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,239
Auburn University
But they have to know the ag crop is there. If they show high site fidelity and don't frequently leave their home range, then how do they know it's there to travel to it?


***************
Steve Ditchkoff
College of Forestry, Wildlife and Environment
Auburn University
***************
Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: slippinlipjr] #4133004
05/17/24 11:32 AM
05/17/24 11:32 AM
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Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
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I was hunting in northern Barbour Co when they really started showing up into that area as well about 10 years ago. There had been an occasional stray sighting before this time but this was when they moved into stay…..The year they really started showing up, the neighbors planted a big ag field of corn right along a big creek that connected into the pig population along the river about 10-15 miles to the east. The pigs showed up at end of the summer that year and took up residence overnight about the time they were picking that corn……I always wondered if the smell didn’t drift down the creek just like smoke moving down a watershed drainage at night and pull the pigs to us ……It could have been they were just moving up the creek and found it and decided it was a good place to stay…..

Over the last 10-15 years though they’ve expanded greatly across that whole area and it looks like they’re still growing. I think baiting is likely exacerbating it because it gives the pigs a good reason to stay in these new places they expand into. This ^^^^ was also about the same time that the 100 yards and out of the line of baiting started so feeders were going up as well about that same year the pigs showed up……..We had a lot of little short pines at the time with feeders set up along the roads running through them and the pigs just set up shop in those thickets and never left.

Last edited by CNC; 05/17/24 12:06 PM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: Steve Ditchkoff] #4133008
05/17/24 11:35 AM
05/17/24 11:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 72,323
Luverne, AL
Skinny Offline
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Skinny  Offline
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Luverne, AL
Originally Posted by Steve Ditchkoff
But they have to know the ag crop is there. If they show high site fidelity and don't frequently leave their home range, then how do they know it's there to travel to it?


Right. But with water they follow gravity because that is what living creatures are programmed to do when there is no water. Its also why critters get trapped in deep mud.


"Never Trust Government" -- Smart people.
"The Great thing we should Fear and the Weird Thing we Trust is Elon Musk" -- Me
"You can be broke but you cant be poor." -- Ruthie-May Webster
Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: cartervj] #4133012
05/17/24 11:56 AM
05/17/24 11:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 383
alabama
C
C3SEAST Offline
4 point
C3SEAST  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 383
alabama
Originally Posted by cartervj
How’s the poison for hogs coming along. I’d read about some research trying to find a doable poison
I thought the research was from LSU

Here’s the answer-cut the red tape and get it on the market

Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: slippinlipjr] #4133018
05/17/24 12:05 PM
05/17/24 12:05 PM
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abolt300 Offline
Booner
abolt300  Offline
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Here's a hog question, are hogs immune to the EHD and Bluetongue viruses prevalent in drought years in most of the Southeastern US, or can it also be fatal to them too?

Re: Dr Ditchkoff on Hogs [Re: C3SEAST] #4133028
05/17/24 12:23 PM
05/17/24 12:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,765
somewhere around 112.
S
slippinlipjr Offline OP
I make Calds fer a livin
slippinlipjr  Offline OP
I make Calds fer a livin
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,765
somewhere around 112.
Originally Posted by C3SEAST
Originally Posted by cartervj
How’s the poison for hogs coming along. I’d read about some research trying to find a doable poison
I thought the research was from LSU

Here’s the answer-cut the red tape and get it on the market

He talks about that in the video. Sodium nitrite.

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