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Velvet
by Tree Dweller. 09/07/24 01:33 AM
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Re: gobbler home ranges in spring
[Re: 3toe]
#4139125
05/29/24 01:03 AM
05/29/24 01:03 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,830 Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,830
Elmore County
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It’s hard to argue with tracking data saying he moved 3 miles when you have turkeys that seem to roost on the same 2 acres day in and day out. Only way I can make it make sense in my head is turkeys are like largemouth bass. You catch one off a good stump and there is another one there the next day. For whatever the reason bass just like that stump and gravitate to it. Seems to be the same with turkeys. That 2 acres always has a turkey roosted on it because turkeys just gravitate to it. It’s rarely the same turkey but there is always one there.
Mostly horseshit I know but it’s the only way I can make it seem logical in my head. im pretty sure the roaming part could different from place to place . animal is a animal they get what they need in a small area they stay in the smaller area be predator or prey . like you its been the same where ive hunted . the turkeys didnt seem to roam that way . in places it seemed they did have patterens for part of the year then a different one for the other part . then for some it was pretty much the same tree ever night . weather would change up roosting . ive seen a lot of gooblers in the same spot at dinner time ever day just strutting his ass off . or so i thought it was the same ones ?
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Re: gobbler home ranges in spring
[Re: gobbler]
#4139151
05/29/24 06:54 AM
05/29/24 06:54 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 20,057 colbert county
cartervj
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 20,057
colbert county
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And don’t forget and leave out context. Aka cherry picking Our study site was heavily forested, and our results may not translate directly to populations in regions dominated by open landcover types. For example, landscapes with minimal forest cover and reduced roost-site availability may place limitations on daily movements and range sizes that turkeys may not face in a heavily forested landscape such as SRS, where suitable roost sites are ubiquitous (Byrne et al., 2015; Gross, Little, et al., 2015). Additionally, variations in courtship behavior have been observed between subspecies of wild turkeys living in different landscape types (Healy, 1992). Male turkeys in forested landscapes such as SRS display individually or in small groups at widely dispersed locations comparable to exploded leks (Ulrey et al., 2023), but there have been observations of males in grassland-dominated landscapes forming true leks, communal display grounds visited by females in which males display in larger groups (Healy, 1992; Watts & Stokes, 1971). Differences in the distribution and availability of resources and suitable habitats across landscapes likely result in differences in seasonal space use patterns of male turkeys. Similar studies across a range of landscapes would provide opportunities to assess the relative role of context-dependent habitat and reproductive activity on male turkey space use.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: gobbler home ranges in spring
[Re: Mbrock]
#4139344
05/29/24 01:30 PM
05/29/24 01:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,525 Georgia and Missouri
Semo
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,525
Georgia and Missouri
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It seems that one of the more beautiful and yet maddening parts of wildlife research is the wide ranging variability in such things as population dynamics and home range... Yep. It don’t matter if it’s home ranges and habitat use on snakes, bats, turkeys or deer, the variability in what an individual might do compared to the collective average is amazing. I’ve learned to not say never or always in wildlife cause it’s just not so. yep, I took a movement ecology class in grad school and it is very interesting how different phyla in the animal kingdom act in similar dispersal patterns. You almost always have that same % of long range dispersal (most of the time it is young males). It would be very interesting to know the age classes and the range size in this study. My guess is the older birds (>3 or4 years) don't have as large of ranges. But, there are so many other variables to consider. My guess is that this study relies on a lot of pseudo replication making their sample size seem much larger than it probably is. That is what happens most of the time in wildlife studies anyway. Got to get those good AIC numbers or low P-values and to hell with experimental design.
Last edited by Semo; 05/29/24 01:30 PM.
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Re: gobbler home ranges in spring
[Re: cartervj]
#4139521
05/29/24 07:16 PM
05/29/24 07:16 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,968 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,968
Awbarn, AL
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And don’t forget and leave out context. Aka cherry picking Our study site was heavily forested, and our results may not translate directly to populations in regions dominated by open landcover types. For example, landscapes with minimal forest cover and reduced roost-site availability may place limitations on daily movements and range sizes that turkeys may not face in a heavily forested landscape such as SRS, where suitable roost sites are ubiquitous (Byrne et al., 2015; Gross, Little, et al., 2015). Additionally, variations in courtship behavior have been observed between subspecies of wild turkeys living in different landscape types (Healy, 1992). Male turkeys in forested landscapes such as SRS display individually or in small groups at widely dispersed locations comparable to exploded leks (Ulrey et al., 2023), but there have been observations of males in grassland-dominated landscapes forming true leks, communal display grounds visited by females in which males display in larger groups (Healy, 1992; Watts & Stokes, 1971). Differences in the distribution and availability of resources and suitable habitats across landscapes likely result in differences in seasonal space use patterns of male turkeys. Similar studies across a range of landscapes would provide opportunities to assess the relative role of context-dependent habitat and reproductive activity on male turkey space use. The study site was in South Carolina.......That seems pretty applicable to much of Alabama, no? We conducted research on the Savannah River Site (SRS), a 78,000-ha U.S. Department of Energy property located in the Atlantic Coastal plain of South Carolina, USA. Approximately 94% of SRS was forested, dominated by loblolly pine (Pinus taeda), longleaf pine (P. palustris), and slash pine (P. elliottii) managed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture Forest Service for timber production and wildlife habitat, particularly the federally endangered red-cockaded woodpecker (Leuconotopicus borealis), which involved use of prescribed fire applied on a 3–5-year rotation (White & Gaines, 2000). Remaining forest cover consisted primarily of bottomland hardwood forests along drainages and the Savannah River. Interspersed within the forest matrix were several nuclear industrial and research facilities, with non-developed openings consisting of powerline rights-of-way and wildlife food plots.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: gobbler home ranges in spring
[Re: gobbler]
#4139527
05/29/24 07:27 PM
05/29/24 07:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 20,057 colbert county
cartervj
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 20,057
colbert county
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Read what I highlighted. I didn't say it they did and one of which was chamberlain. That’s why I mention cherry-picking. You gotta take the study in its entirety! Our study site was heavily forested, and our results may not translate directly to populations in regions dominated by open landcover types Doesn’t apply across the board. I mentioned I knew of an hardwood tract where that held true. I hunted it back in the early 90s and those birds were never in the same spot. I moved on to ag fields and clusters of hardwoods where you could watch and see the birds. It was obvious they were the same birds. I seriously doubt the exact same number of birds and ratios of hens to gobblers cruise that area over 8 miles of creek bottom.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: gobbler home ranges in spring
[Re: gobbler]
#4139569
05/29/24 08:28 PM
05/29/24 08:28 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,968 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,968
Awbarn, AL
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I could see where sampling from an unhunted population might skew travel data as well because I would think you would have a much different ratio of gobblers to hens with no gobblers being killed yet hens still suffering the same likely mortality as a hunted population……The extra competition amongst males should cause more traveling for the average gobbler I would suspect.
Still though, I’ve yet to see any evidence that would lead someone to believe breeding is being negatively impacted…..Is there any study that shows nesting timing having a lot of variability?.....Seems like they all show a pretty consistent average nesting date don’t they whether hunted or not?.....I’ll give you that I can see where a hen might choose the dominant male to breed to if given the choice……But apparently if she’s ready to breed she’ll settle for the next available pretty quickly or you’d be seeing differences in nest timing of the hunted and non-hunted areas….correct??
Last edited by CNC; 05/29/24 08:29 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: gobbler home ranges in spring
[Re: gobbler]
#4139612
05/29/24 09:24 PM
05/29/24 09:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 20,057 colbert county
cartervj
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 20,057
colbert county
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I don’t know how one could have a perfect control or even if you have to? I think there are so many variables that influence the outcome and year to year is different. I’ve not seen many poults yet and lot of single hens. By now I’d usually would have seen numerous hens with poults. The two hens I’ve seen with poults have had very few. 1 poult today and 3 last week. Weather? Predation? Whatever?
I do know in my area a few things that have changed
Way more turkey hunters Way more turkey hunters hunting all day
Back when we were hard at it we were done well before 10 My cutoff to get home and cleaned up and open my studio by 10:30 I could push it to 9 if I had to but most days I was leaving by 8. Jerry would leave too so birds had no bother the rest of the day. If I wanted fro try an afternoon I as in the creek on TVA land. That was usually trying o roost one though.
The thing I saw on FB but seems to be more scolding is hunters haplessly busting a hen off the nest and taking pics of the nest and posting on fb. It was pretty often but now they get scolded thank goodness.
Times have changed
How would y’all feel about a noon cutoff? I just see so many similarities between turkey and duck hunting as far as popularity and the competition of being the it on social media.
It’s both good and bad at the same time I’m just curious as how to temper that. Maybe there is nothing to do but let it run its course?
Back in subject I do believe the study has a lot of merit. “But it depends” is the only point I’m trying to make
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: gobbler home ranges in spring
[Re: turkey247]
#4141234
06/02/24 06:53 AM
06/02/24 06:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,998 North Jackson
ridgestalker
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,998
North Jackson
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Now now. Hold up. What about that gobbler that roosts in the same spot every night?! 😜 To be fair - one of those jokers in the study roosted in the same tree apparently and used a total of 7 acres on the regular. Some have random roost and others definitely stay in a very small area. I believe when they bust up and establish pecking order the older birds select the areas with most hens and prime nesting habitat. The 2 year old birds end up high on side of mtn or in areas of marginal habitat. The older birds I’m lucky to kill are often just above fields etc and gobble very little. The younger birds seem to roam about a lot more. That’s in the mtns on very pressured birds. I’m going with the older the gobbler the smaller his range.
Last edited by ridgestalker; 06/02/24 07:11 AM.
"The Heavens declare the glory of God;and the firmament sheweth his handiwork" Pslam 19:1
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Re: gobbler home ranges in spring
[Re: ridgestalker]
#4141356
06/02/24 12:47 PM
06/02/24 12:47 PM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,525 Georgia and Missouri
Semo
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,525
Georgia and Missouri
|
Now now. Hold up. What about that gobbler that roosts in the same spot every night?! 😜 To be fair - one of those jokers in the study roosted in the same tree apparently and used a total of 7 acres on the regular. Some have random roost and others definitely stay in a very small area. I believe when they bust up and establish pecking order the older birds select the areas with most hens and prime nesting habitat. The 2 year old birds end up high on side of mtn or in areas of marginal habitat. The older birds I’m lucky to kill are often just above fields etc and gobble very little. The younger birds seem to roam about a lot more. That’s in the mtns on very pressured birds. I’m going with the older the gobbler the smaller his range. Don't forget the roaming bands of jakes that run off the older gobblers. I've got some "bad" problems with those suckers always running off the birds I'm calling. Last year I had a group of 17 jakes. This year I've seen different groups of 11, 13, and 15.
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Re: gobbler home ranges in spring
[Re: hallb]
#4142182
06/03/24 09:14 PM
06/03/24 09:14 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,830 Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,830
Elmore County
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So are you saying I can’t trust these “I’ve been hunting this same turkey for 4 years” stories?? yeap you can, same with honey holes , if that term is still used these days . lol
Last edited by Frankie; 06/03/24 09:14 PM.
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