I guess I’ve watched the majority of these podcasts and youtube videos and listened to all the experts give their opinions about the turkey issues now……….and at the end of the day what I take away from all of it is that the turkey hunters are just screwed. I say that because there may be a lot of talk going on about habitat and predation but the only real action being talked about involves less hunting days and lower bag limits…….The only solution anyone is actually presenting is that “the hunters need to sacrifice”.

The problem though is that in no way does this do anything to address the real problem of predation on hens, eggs, and poults…..hunters can sacrifice all the days and turkey limits they want to and that will still be the same as it was before……which means nothing of any real significance will change….. All I’m saying is……after all the talk and studying…..there still doesn’t seem to be any actual solutions for changing the path we’re on…..

If the real problem is predation then folks are going to have to come up with ways to create change from what we have now. As in…..”this is the action we propose to take which we project will create x amount of new habitat”…..or….”this is the action we propose to take which will reduce predator loads by x amount during these critical time periods”……Unless I missed it somewhere along the way, you don’t hear anything like that being presented…….

If the powers that be......would go ahead and utilize a method over a period of time to make Hogs and Coyotes Sterile you would see a BOOM in Turkey Populations. Throw in Armadillos to. None of these 3 Critters are of any use in Alabama!

Hunters bitch/cry about no turkeys and always have? But even me and most hunters just don’t and won't to or take the time to hunt/trap the predators. Where it is coyotes coons/possums, skunks, fire ants. Can’t kill hawks but they are rough on poults. We must leave a bird gobbling and walk away. Hens can’t be breed with him around???????

The Auburn and Florida professors said in one video that only about 30% of the adult gobblers are being killed now in most places…..If that’s true then it means you already have 70% surviving now…….And of that amount being killed how many come from hunters that are killing more than two??......I forget the exact number without looking it up but I’m pretty sure its a fairly small percentage……


So if all hunters sacrificed and voluntarily limited themselves to 2 birds, would you actually be saving enough for this idea to even be noticeable??

I highly doubt that 30% on heavily hunted properties

Knew of 7 longbeards around the farm before season know of only one right now.

I believe you can kill too many on a property and I do believe in the DGT

The truth is in the middle.

For all those wanting an earlier season like Mississippi they do have a 3 bird limit.

Lets assume that all 6 of those gobblers were actually killed and didn’t just relocate…..If you look at the statistics then it would say that something like 4 of those birds were killed by hunters who only killed one bird all season……the 5th one was killed by a guy who killed two birds all season and the 6th one by a guy who killed 3 or more……..Lowering the bag limit to 2 or 3 doesn’t save those 6 birds and you’re probably lucky if it even saves one. That's the way the statistics set up across the board anyways.....

If you’re wanting to save some gobblers to bank for next year then I think banning decoys and cracking down on baiting would be a more effective approach. That impacts everyone including the group of hunters who are only killing ONE…..which is the more significant number. That’s just my opinion.

Forget the gobblers save the hens dying on the nest.

Why would those birds leave the hens that were using those fields daily and continued to do so.

It kinda appears to be working for Mississippi doesn’t it? How long has Mississippi had the 3 bird limit? I know it went back into the 90s early 2000. Maybe sooner. Did their populations drop as bad as ours?

We have more hunters in the woods. Significantly more. So less guys supposedly are killing 5 and then 4 but still more birds are dying overall is my guess.

The study mentioned did it make the ones captured more leery and harder to kill? Skewing the data?

The series to me made many significant points but brought in many questions as well. Like most things in life, it’s the little things that matter. I’d mentioned butterfly effect or chaos theory which I guess you could call it cascading events. There so many variables that influence what is happening nothing can be pinpointed except habitat. Habitat for nesting and then brood rearing. Then there habitat for wintering flocks and all other aspects of a turkeys life

It’s all my opinion and I ascertain hunters have way more impact than most hunters want to admit.

I know it differs from county to county but in Jackson we are still killing large #’s and are seeing birds in places we’ve never had them before. I think habitat, good nesting areas and lowering the predator populations is the answer . All 3 of these can be helped by we the hunters . Last year was the first year I know of that we had interactions with hens on nests while cutting and baling hay . I know of 3 nests and 1 hen that were destroyed. Waiting later on one field that we killed the hen in hopes hatch has occurred but still can’t wait too long . Plenty of fringe areas for them to nest but it is what it is . I trap coons , possums and skunks year round in live traps . Helps save my garden and poults . We took out two bobcats from one area so hopefully that will help . My thinking is if you wait on Montgomery you’ll
Be in worse shape .

I know large landowners that have the money and spend it on management and trapping, but say that they don’t have the turkey numbers they use to have. Just saying habitat and trapping is the answer is not necessarily true.

I think one of the problems we’re having is that some folks feel the need to back their buddies play on this stuff even though it doesn’t make sense. I get that folks in the outdoor industry are all tied to each other and folks want to be a good wingman to support the group……but you cant do that to the point of supporting bad decisions just because it was your buddy that made them. That’s kinda what it feels like at this point…..We’ve chosen a path and now we are going to do everything possible to persuade folks that it was the right one even if it wasnt…..We’re gonna do everything possible to convince folks that somehow the amount of males being killed is having a significant impact that justifies what has been done even though it probably doesn’t……

I may be completely wrong but I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it doesn’t matter which gobbler breeds a hen if she gets eaten off the nest. It doesn’t matter which one breeds her if she is constantly disturbed while nesting…..It doesn’t matter which one breeds her if all her poults are eaten by hawks……The only way it could matter is if somehow the breeding window was greatly lengthened out as a result and so much inefficiency was introduced that it causes added predation to occur.....and according to the studies that doesnt seem to be happening. Folks are going to support these feel good measures though that limit hunter bag limits and season dates and it isnt going to make any difference.

Ga is the state most similar to AL (maybe Miss) and they have had a 3 bird limit as far back as I can remember.

Working for MS? Ok, in what context? And what exactly is working?

AL kills more each season than MS - but it’s mostly a wash. MS has stayed firm in maintaining a M15 start date, and - they have a week long youth season that starts a week before M15.

MS is basically the control in a study vs the woke states that pushed seasons. They see the same ebbs and flows in their data that every other state experiences - no matter how woke the regulations.

And a limit of 3 vs 4 is a giant nothing burger in total legal harvest.

And they used to open March 20th. I think it as 06 when it changed and we soon changed afterwards.

Why isn’t Mississippi hunters jumping up and down wanting 4-5 bird limits?

I’m done. Cherry picking instead of actually having a historic conversation in it’s entirety

Honestly I’m curious as to the why. I find it intriguing because I’ve heard all sorts of reasons. I’ve about decided its ebb and flow as it was intended to be?

I thought turkey247 had a valid question about Mississippi.......

Something we agree on.

Here’s what I believe and what I think should be done.

Starting the season two weeks before peak nest initiation, starting at peak nest initiation, or starting during peak incubation - makes zero difference in poult production.

Habitat matters. Predator management matters. As an individual hunter - do what you can to influence one or both of these to help poult production.

Be passionate about killing Spring gobblers, as many as you legally can, and pass it on.

The state(s) - allow hunters to hunt during reasonable dates that make them happy - early and often - then get out of the way.

You may not believe this model works, but a lot of us do. We are trying to help the non-believers have more turkeys also - we are not against you. We just don’t believe more turkeys will be produced by further restrictions, driven by jealousy / fairness / unproven science, etc….

Habitat,predators,hunters,really wet or dry springs , herbicide timing ? Natural up and down cycle , I think it’s a mix of most of these

Im not sure one way or another. I had it bad as anyone. Greedy doesn’t begin to describe how obsessed I was. Every damn one needed to die by my hands. I’ve been there so I get it.

Like I’ve said when you asked
I like March 20 for south and April 1 for up here. I guess I’m biased to the dates when I started hunting but they seemed right.

When does the panhandle of Florida open?

What I meant by cherry pick is mentioning the 15th as if it has always been and it has not in Alabama nor Mississippi
I think you can go way way back to the 60s or 70s to get that date as the starter. Again around 06 when it shifted back to the 15th again. Mentioning that Mississippi as the 15 as anecdotal yet forgetting they have a 3 bird limit. Could those be factors 🤷‍♂️ could they not be factors 🤷‍♂️ just striving for that to be true to me is agenda driven. My agenda is hoping I’m still able to hunt them 10-15 years from now and not having to close the season like what happened up here in the 70s and 80s.

To bring it up to speed my personal opinion is that let the bulk of hens go on nest then open it up. I do believe they are busting up sooner than they used to. We used to see flocks of up to 45 birds opening day up here on the creek. I hunted with a biologist on that creek so he can back it up solidly.

The biggest change is we never see 10 birds in a flock opening day now, usually a gobbler and 3-4 hens. So that’s my jealousy or whatever else you want call it. I personally call it concerning. I used to hunt wolf creek on the 20th and then Sam r Murphy when it opened on the 20th. They had flocks of 15-25 on the opener. Killed a ton of birds at Sam R Murphy until the crowds hit it and I left.

Found a busted nest the other day and appears to be crows and I see that occasionally. So add crows to the list.

I only picked M15 because that is where MS has been and stayed since everyone else started experimenting. They have maintained the conservative “control” in this big experiment.

I think they said in one podcast that around 30% of adult hens are lost to predation each year and that hunters on average killed around 30% of the adult gobbler population......If that were true then wouldnt you have about 1:1 ratio of hens to gobblers or am I missing something there??