Originally Posted by jwalker77
Originally Posted by Pwyse
Originally Posted by jwalker77
Pwyse, i ask one more time, please show me one place where the bible says any human is "worthy of Christ giving his life". Those were your exact words and you go on to say the bible backs it up. Please show me where the bible backs up that statement. By definition, "grace" means we did not get what we deserved but rather Christ gave us what was his. I know you want so much to believe in inclusion, because thats what the world is teaching. But the bible plainly says it is not of works, which means no human can earn it. It says we were all born into sin, then sin brings death. It says no man is good, no not one. It says we all fall short. Also let the word of God be the truth and every man a liar. So theres several quotes out of the bible proving no man is worthy of Christs death. Will you please show me one place in the bible that states otherwise? To be honest, i didnt even read all that you said because i havent got past that first false statement.


I'm sorry Jwalker I didn't see this post yesterday so I didn't respond to it.

As I said in my other post, I know what we deserve. We deserve death and hell. The Bible says that plainly. But what we deserve, and what we are worth to God, are two different things. John 3:16 plainly says that He loved us so much he DIED for us. Love is worth. If we love something it has worth and value to us. To God, we are worth the sacrifice. We are worth more than the death we deserve. That is the gospel. We are sinners... we deserve hell... God said no, I'll take your place because you are worth more than that to me... and we tell others about how much they mean to God.

So the whole point I was making was this... it would be more effective to point out to a homosexual that God loves them so much that He thought they were worthy of His sacrifice. Even though they deserve to die.

I did NOT mean that we deserved God's sacrifice. And all the verses in the Bible that you pointed out argue for what we deserve. They do NOT argue what our worth to God is. The simple fact that He loves us shows us what we are worth to Him. You actually proved what I was saying in your post above. Without HIS love, we go to hell. We can't save ourselves.

I think maybe I didn't word my original statement very well. I assumed people would not confuse our worth to God with what we deserve.

As far as me believing in inclusion, the only inclusion I believe in is called out in John 3:16. The "world" in that verse included all sinners. Me you murderers homos all of us. We are all included in that statement. The only difference between me and someone going to hell is Christ. Now of course, sinners who don't accept Christ are still going to hell, so I'm not saying we are all going to heaven. Making Christ Lord of your life separates that.

I hope that clears up what I was saying. Sorry if I confused you, that wasn't my intentions. My intention was to share with you on how to be a better witness to sinners if you get the chance to share the Gospel with a homo.

I dont think were far from believing the same thing. But i do believe it is all about Gods glory. Even Jesus said what he was doing was to glorify the father. I do not believe the plan was made for us, i believe we were made for the plan. The plan existed well before the first human, "before the foundations of the earth". It was all to glorify God. We are just a small part of the plan. Everything in existence was created to glorify God. The focus is not on humans, its on God.


I agree Joseph. We are not far at all from believing the same thing. If we sat down and had a meal and discussed things we believe we would probably be spot on lol. My communication skills get in the way a lot lol.