I’m recommending a religion forum so everyone chomping at the bit to argue over this stuff can go there.

These threads essentially are religion subforums….you only have to read the posts if you actively click on them. Otherwise, you don’t see them…

You’re right, just hard not to click on them when every other post is one

"RCC 1498 - Through indulgences the faithful can obtain the remission of temporal punishment resulting from sin for themselves and also for the souls in Purgatory"

There is absolutely nothing biblical about this. Same with the others. If the supremacy of scripture is important to you, like it was to Martin Luther, you'll look them up.

I didn't even get in to them praying to Mary, a dead person, or confession to a priest, which completely circumvents Jesus as our high priest in Hebrews 4:14.

I don't have time to walk you step-by-step through each and every one, but I've provided you plenty to look it up yourself, if it's important to you?

stuffy Jesus was anointed at His baptism.

Mark Outdoors: reply

Regarding the sacrament of confession/reconciliation. My understanding is that Catholics acknowledge that the power to forgive sins is solely from God as stated in the catechism references below; however, they also believe that Christ established a priesthood through the apostles, and he gave him the authority as the Church. So the priest is the earthly authority which you go to, and he says the words of forgiveness but it is Christ at work. Similar to the Jews, they had to take their offerings to a priest who sacrificed them for the forgiveness of their sins. The forgiveness of sins wasn’t from the power of the priests, it was all from God, but the priest acted in accordance with the authority God had given them.

Catholic view of biblical authority to forgive sins comes from John:
“Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.”

CCC 1441: “Only God forgives sins. Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, ‘The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins’ and exercises this divine power: ‘Your sins are forgiven.’ Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.
CCC 1442: “Christ has willed that in her prayer and life and action his whole Church should be the sign and instrument of the forgiveness and reconciliation that he acquired for us at the price of his blood. But he entrusted the exercise of the power of absolution to the apostolic ministry which he charged with the ‘ministry of reconciliation.’ The apostle is sent out ‘on behalf of Christ’ with ‘God making his appeal’ through him and pleading: ‘Be reconciled to God.’”

How do those square with RCC 1498 about indulgences being relief from sin? That's a work.

We are justified through our faith in Christ. The Council of Trent disagreed and required works.

"If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema" - Council of Trent 1547

Let’s keep topics together. I responded to one of your 4-5 comments claiming that certain Catholic beliefs are unbiblical. This one was specifically on reconciliation. Where you said it circumvents Christ. Given that the Catholic catechism says it’s Gods power, but authority given to priests, supported by Jesus’ words in the Gospel of John, how do you respond? You didn’t acknowledge anything I provided


I’ll be happy to respond to your other questions, it just takes time to type out. Which topic would you like me to address first?

The testator ( Jesus) had not died, Jesus was still alive and could perform miracles. Plenty of scripture supports Baptism.

John 3: 3-7 Jesus himself , talking to Nicodemus tells us what must be done . John 3 : 5 " Verily, verily I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and the spirit , he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

IMHO , John 3: 3-7 are some of the most important verses in the Bible .

They're all related. They are all works above and beyond what scripture describes. These traditions/works of the RCC are held on par with the bible. I've listed several. Feel free to defend any of them.

Additionally, from a former, 30 year Catholic.....https://www.forthegospel.org/watch/false-unity-with-roman-catholics

Again, it appears you are deflecting from the response I gave you on confession. You can’t just say “everything Catholics do is works based and therefore unbiblical” and then tell me I have to defend 7 things all at once. How about a honest conversation where you acknowledge the information. I’m not asking you to buy into or agree with Catholicism I’m just asking you to not misrepresent it. So from the belief laid out in the catechism being in line with the Bible verse how can you still say it’s unbiblical? It may be different than your interpretation but you can’t say that it is not mentioned or supported anywhere in the Bible. The words come from Christ himself. And if you have another interpretation I’d like to hear if it’s your personal interpretation and understanding or your denomination/congregations belief.

If you are willing to have a conversation, I’ll go into the next topic. Saying “you’re wrong” with no support isn’t a conversation.

Where in the Bible does it say we are to "believe in one holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church" ?

Ok, let's not misquote what I said. I never stated that "everything Catholics do is works based". I provided several of their RCCs that, if you read through them, are clearly works in addition to faith that contradict salvation by faith alone. I also provided their statement from The Council of Trent which you've yet to address. It doesn't take much of an objective reading to understand that they are works.

If you believe that scripture is the measure to which everything should be compared, provide scripture that supports those RCCs.

I agree, MO.

I would say one Catholic (universal) church is talked about here: “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.” (John 17:21, KJV)

I’d also say that the Church is talked about as the Bride of Christ and also as the spiritual body of Christ. Christ would neither have two or more bodies or brides. What that unity or oneness looks like today I’m not sure but it’s pretty clear that Christ intended unity among Christians to the glory of the Father.

And my verse earlier where Jesus breathes on the Apostles and gives them the authority to bind and loose sins. Not to mention the countless verses where Christ returns and is teaching the apostles. It’s pretty clear from Christs whole ministry that the 12 Apostles were chosen to lead the church one Christ had risen up.

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” (Matthew 28:18-20, KJV)

And the last supper after going to the upper room he tells the Apostles to “do this in remembrance of me”

So yea one church founded by Christ, passed down through the apostles, as one, as the Father Son and Holy Spirit are one.

Mathew 16 : 18 does NOT say , upon this rock I will build the Catholic Church. I'm sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling Sir.

Dang. This is over my head.

Yall remember when we were all just trying to get Bulls eye to get back to serving in a church?

Those were the good ole days! 😂

A minion outbreak would realign the planets just in time for the summer solstice. 👀

CCC 2003: “Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church.”
CCC 2008: “The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man’s free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful.”

So they believe by faith and works they are justified but the works come from God, so they are justified by the grace of God living in them producing works.

Protestants would say that they are saved by grace through faith, but through that faith you are to produce good works. Well what happens if you don’t produce good works? They would also say once saved always saved. So if you are saved and not producing good works you would then say well the faith wasn’t real? How many works would you need to produce to validate your faith? You’re still in the same pickle because you acknowledge that works have to accompany faith, you would just say faith comes first. Catholics would say grace comes first then through faith you simultaneously produce works. They are not exclusive. The common ground is that they both acknowledge that they merit no salvation and that it is solely from God through Jesus Christ.


James 2:17-26 (KJV):
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

And I acknowledge that the Bible also says the Protestant favorite:
Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV):
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

So there are examples of it saying by faith and also through works, is the Bible contradicting itself?