https://churchleaders.com/news/4876...pt-nicene-creed-at-annual-meeting.html/2

We mentioned in the other SBC threads the creeds and their shared roles in many denominations e.g. Apostles Creed, Nicene Creed. It was timely that some discussion around adopting the Nicene creed was had at the annual SBC meeting.

Something that was notable to me from the article was the acknowledgement of how little southern Baptist care about ecumenism or Christian unity between denominations. That has always been my experience growing up southern Baptist but no one outright said that. It was more understood that we don’t intermingle with Methodists, Presb., Pentecostal, and Catholic and Orthodox werent even Christians.

Did Christ intend for there to be a unified Church? How important is that? What are the core beliefs that unite Protestants? All Christians? I always thought it was strange that the churches I attended were so anti other denominations. I’ll admit it is a fine line between bonding over our common beliefs e.g. Trinity, Christs life, death, and resurrection, and accepting other beliefs that our denomination finds heretical e.g. infant baptism for some

If you’ll recall the changes to the Nicene creed to add that the Spirit proceeds from the Father AND the Son was a key ingredient in the first great schism between Orthodox and Catholics. But almost all Christian denominations have recognized and accepted at the very least the Apostles creed as the core beliefs of Christians. Are the Creeds unifying? Can’t they be.

creeds or confessions of faith like the westminster the London conression ect. are not a Bible believing Christians authority.the preserved WORD OF GOD is my authority.

The Bible isn’t your authority, YOUR interpretation of the Bible is your authority. In which case, you submit to no one and are your own authority.

The creeds are based/built off scripture as a summary of the core beliefs of Christians. They aren’t suppose to contradict. Running with your view, What part of the Nicene Creed doesn’t jive with the Bible? Please give Specific examples please.

I think the Apostle’s Creed sums it up about as succinctly as is possible. It hits all the major points. Everything else can be debated until Jesus returns, but if you truly believe the things it states and try to live them as much as you can, I feel like you’ve probably got it covered

I believe in God the father almighty, maker of Heaven and Earth
And in Jesus Christ His only son, our Lord
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
Born of the Virgin Mary
Suffered under Pontius Pilate
Was crucified, dead and buried
He descended into Hell
On the 3rd day He rose from the dead
He ascended into Heaven and sits at the right hand of God the father almighty
From there he will judge the living and the dead
I believe in the Holy Spirit
The holy catholic* church
The communion of saints**
The forgiveness of sins
The resurrection of the body
And the life everlasting

Amen


*catholic = “universal”, not the Roman Catholic denomination
**saints = all true believers and followers of Christ

creeds are SOMEONES interpretation also
read the preserved word of God and let the Holy Spirit guide you into all truth.
creeds and confessions also cause division

Yea I think your overall view of it has potential to be a point of unity between denominations. What I see a lot of today though is religious indifference. No one cares what you believe, all denominations are equal. That’s not what I’m saying here but I believe it is the other side of the double edged sword. It would be nice to have an established common ground of beliefs as Christians. I think that is the utility of the early church Creeds.

One of the major hang ups discussed at the SBC for baptists in incorporating the Nicene creed is the line “I believe in ONE baptism for the FORGIVENESS of sins”

My understanding is Baptists believe in believers baptism which is a decision made once someone has already been saved as an outward sign to the world, meaning that baptism is not salvific. Whereas the early church belief and the one reflected in the creed and Bible is that you are baptized for the forgiveness of your sins.

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” (Acts 2:38, KJV)

The thief on the cross pretty much discredits any idea that the baptism, in and of itself, is anything more than an outward expression of faith. I am NOT saying that baptism isn’t important by any means, but the water isn’t what saves you

Jesus was the spotless lamb without sin. So why was he baptized?

Sorry for the edit, was trying to fix it before you replied!


Yea, I think this is an argument that baptists use often and I follow the logic. I don’t know of any Christian’s that would say the Water saves you. The power of salvation is always through Christ Jesus.

I have always been curious about it being the norm or the exception? I tend to think that if Christ said be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins then that would be the normative way it’s done. It appears that there was some debate in the early church on infant baptism but largely all of the church fathers agreed that Baptism served two purposes. Remission of sins and receiving the Holy Spirit. The Omnipotent God has the power to save a repentant heart on their death bed, but that would not be the “normal way” God laid out for us as we see by Jesus’ words in John.

Regardless of the view and impact of baptism I think all Christians agree it is essential doctrine.

For anyone unfamiliar I guess I should share the Nicene Creed being discussed:

The Nicene Creed

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Ecumenicalism is not something that should be ascribed to as bible-believing Christians. There is no fellowship with Catholicism, Greek Orthodox, Presbyterian Church USA because they have beliefs that are completely contrary with the Bible. Catholicism is Faith + Works = Salvation. Greek Orthodox worship is similar plus idol worship of icons. PCUSA ordains and baptizes homosexuals.

Nicene Creed is not something too troubling since it comports to scripture.
Apostles creed is more questionable regarding the line about Jesus descending into Hell.

The Bible never explicitly states that Jesus went to down to hell for the 3 days prior to the resurrection, but there are a few verses that allude to it. Additionally, a few things that support it:

First, Jesus paid for our sins when he was sacrificed. The Bible is clear that the penalty for sin is death. An eternity apart from God. That is, Hell. Jesus didn’t pay part of our penalty, he paid it ALL. So it stands to reason that Jesus essentially spent an “eternity in Hell” for every single person who is saved. I realize that’s difficult for our mortal minds to comprehend, but no more so than many of the other things we believe as Christians.

Second, as Jesus died, the last thing he said was “Father why have you forsaken me?” This is because Jesus took on the sin of every sinner, and God simply cannot be present with sin, hence Jesus was completely separated from God (the literal definition of Hell)

Third, Jesus ascended to Heaven to be with God well after the resurrection. Remember he appeared to a lot of people over a 40-day period before ascending to Heaven. So, if he wasn’t in Heaven during that 3-day period between his death and resurrection, then that leaves only one option (unless you believe in purgatory which is not biblical)

Respectfully, I don’t think you accurately express what Catholics or Orthodox believe. Neither of your examples of Catholic of Orthodox are what Catholics nor Orthodox would say they believe. Could be saved for another thread. At least this confirms that you follow the thought that there is no unity with anyone who has slightly different beliefs than you. So no room for ecuminism.


Caveat here is that I’m not super knowledgeable on Sheol:
I believe the understanding of Him descending into Hell was really the word (Sheol) refers to Him going and grabbing up the Righteous and bringing them to heaven. Sheol was understood in the Old Testament as a place everyone went, not like Hell where the unrepentant sinners are damned. So the Righteous that followed God such as Abraham, Moses, the prophets etc. were

Ephesians 4:8-10

“Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)”

10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Psalms 16:10

I know they ALLUDE to that, but I think it's important to stick strictly to what the text says and not to add or take anything away. Sometimes when I'm teaching, I make sure to let everyone know that "this is my opinion", so that they know that I'm not saying that this is what the scripture specifically says. I just think it's risky to make conclusions if it is not absolutely substantiated through scripture.

Every member of the Roman Catholic clergy are the modern day Judaizers who distorted the Gospel by adding one additional requirement for salvation. This prompted the apostle Paul to write:”If any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!” (Gal. 1:9). The distortion of the Gospel according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church is diabolical (numbers in parenthesis represent paragraph numbers in the Catechism. I used to believe we had plenty in common until I really began to dig in and notice the significant differences.


Straight from the Roman Catholic Catechism.....

Salvation according to the Catholic Church is by “faith” plus: baptism (1256), the sacraments (1129), the Mass (1405), purgatory (1030), law keeping (2068), indulgences (1498) and good works (2016).

All of these are easily found on the internet.

Of course, until we meet him face to face we’ll never know exactly what went down and what he’s done for us, but the statement “He descended into hell” is the most adequate way we can truly express our belief that Jesus paid the FULL price for our sins. Translate it however you need to comprehend it…”he descended to the dead”. The point is that the penalty of sin is death and separation from God. Jesus paid that penalty for each and every one of us. Not just some of it…not just most of it. ALL of it.

Jesus didn’t only say “Father why have you forsaken me…” it is understood that he recited the psalm 22. This is a misunderstanding by many literal interpretations, it doesn’t acknowledge the day and time it was written. In the early days the scripture was on scribes and the process was very laborious and costly, printed the entire pslam again here was not necessary since everyone knew what he was saying. So similar to how now some denominations say the “Our Father” we all know that refers to the Lord’s Prayer. Pslam 22 has been attributed to king David, though in despair praised God in the same way God the Son is glorifying the Father. During Passover this Pslam would be recited in remembrance of the Jews being freed from Egypt. Guess when Christ was crucified? Passover. He is the blood of the new covenant, the new Passover Lamb. By his blood the captives are set free. Pretty powerful stuff.

Psalm 22 (KJV)

1. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
2. O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
3. But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
4. Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
5. They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
6. But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
7. All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8. He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
9. But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother’s breasts.
10. I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother’s belly.
11. Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
12. Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
13. They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
14. I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15. My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16. For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17. I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19. But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20. Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21. Save me from the lion’s mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22. I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
23. Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
24. For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
25. My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
26. The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the Lord that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
27. All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28. For the kingdom is the Lord’s: and he is the governor among the nations.
29. All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
30. A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
31. They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

Am I the only one who thought this was about a Small Block Chevy???

Man was I wrong

I’m taking a look into these and will answer them directly later. All you have done so far is reference where they are discussed, you have not mentioned what they say or why they are contrary to scripture. For now, I think the onus would be on you to say how the teachings are contrary to the gospel. It is funny because Catholics say the same thing about Protestants, I.e. some of the things they teach are contrary to not only scripture but also to Church tradition