How many of you guys will ease over the max loadings carefully watching for pressure signs ? Or do you never go over max

The rifle tells me it's max.

I often exceed the max loads.

Hint. A chronograph is a reloader's best friend.

Most of my rifles are over max

Good advice here. ☆

In the older editions, Nosler explains why they use the word 'Guide ' and not 'Manual ' for the title of their books.

I suggest you read that for an explanation of why you absolutely can exceed the max loads listed.

IF you know what you're doing.

Other than speed, what info are you looking for out of the chronograph ?

More speed = more pressure.

Look at it this way. Let's say the Nosler Guide indicates their max load using R22 powder with 140 gr bullets in the 7mm Remington Magnum is 67.5 grs and yielded 3340 fps. There are several other contributing factors to consider when looking at the data such as OAL, case brand/capacity, primer, barrel length. Etc. If you try this load in your gun and your chronograph is indicating only 3000 fps with this same load, start adding powder. Keep bumping up the charge until you get closer to the velocity they indicate as max OR you start seeing pressure indicators such as a tighter bolt lift, ejector marks on the case head, severely flattered primers or your gun blows up. I'm only kidding about that last one. You will not blow up your gun doing this unless you accidentally use Blue Dot instead of R22. If you do this we need to discuss your loading bench techniques and organization.

There are also contributing factors which are NOT indicated in their data. Different lots of the same powder can vary significantly. The amount of freebore in your rifle could be more. ,etc. Each rifle is different.

Point is, work towards the top velocity for a given bullet/powder combination while also looking out for traditional pressure signs. You may not be able to reach their top velocity with your gun, but your chronograph and your gun will let you know where you are. DO NOT substitute data for a different powder trying to achieve the velocity for another powder. The velocity data is ONLY for that bullet/powder combo for that cartridge.

BTW, I used the 7mm RM example because that's exactly what happened with my 7 mm RM many years ago. I ended up with a load about 5 gr over book max and I was still short of their top velocity.

Similar situation here in my 7X57. Rifle has an extremely long "military" throat for the 170+ grain bullets. The factory 139s and my handload 145s were ~200 ft/sec slower than what the ammo box said and the what the loading manuals suggested I was supposed to get with certain charges. I went well over the book max charge grains (slowly and incrementally of course) and still was under the max velocity the cartridge is supposed to produce with zero pressure signs.

If I would have stopped at the book max, I would have been shooting 145 grain bullets only 2550 ft/sec rather than 2750-2800.

Also some barrels are "fast" some are "slow." I knew a 30/06 that whatever brand of factory 180 grain it would chrono about 2840 fps and hand loads were the same out of its 22 inch tube no pressure signs no sticky bolt lift just quick with 180s. I think the manufacturers do that just to give us headaches.

I go over but look for pressure signs. Be wary with a Steyr Pro Hunter, for some reason they don't show pressure signs like other rifles that I've shot. May sound crazy but that thing would eat pressure that my model 70 would gag on.

Consistency in velocity round to round.

What is considered good or acceptable variance ?

Depends on how crazy you want to get. Benchrest guys go for really close variations. 50 fps variations from round to round should cause some looking into. In the past we've managed 25 fps or less variations for hunting rounds fairly regular.

My 308 load has a 10 to13 fps spread with an SD of 5.8. Groups are typically around a half in. It's 2/10 of a gr over max which is why I asked the question. Thanks for the input !

Velocity variations only really matter when shooting long distance and virtually irrelevant at typical hunting ranges. If your gun shoots 1/2 MOA at 100 yards you have no worries.

Very interesting and informative. None of my loads are at max. A couple are a few grains below max. As a new handloader I’m not comfortable enough to venture to max and beyond.

Another aspect is brass life. I could get 2950 plus out of a 21” 308 with 150s, but primers were flattened and got incipient case head separation after a couple of loadings. Backed it off a little got 2850, same if not marginally better accuracy, and no pressure signs. That 100fps wasn’t worth it to me.

That's a good average.. Under 25 fps I'm not concerned so long as it groups, Rounds with powder loads that leave room in the case tend to have a bigger variance.

True. I'm glad I never got the bench rest bug. There's no end to the rabbit hole.

Max is lawyer proof on any modern firearm and many of my rifles group better the faster you push them. One thing I've learned is the rifle will tell you when it's getting too high. Quite a few years ago when I was stupider and drank I ran 3 grains over max in a 7 mag Steyr Prohunter. It Chrony'd a 140 grain at 3450 fps. and was laser accurate. The case never indicated any pressure problem other than a very slight flattening of the primer. No sticky bolt. No splits, No blown primers. It would ping when you shot it though due to the harmonics then it turned the crosshairs on a Pentax Lightseeker. Then I knew there was an issue.

Took that same round and put it in a Win. Model 70 and it blew the primer, stuck the bolt, and the case was ruined. I'd never do that now.

There is almost no end to the rabbit hole some of those guys go down. It gives me a headache when they really start getting into numbers and math. One video will say always do something and the next guy will say never do that

There are definitely a lot of rabbit holes and I've been down plenty of them. Some of the best advice does come from the competitive shooters though. The guys who are successful and have been doing it a while all will agree on one thing - if doing something in loading ammo doesn't make a difference on the target you're wasting time.

There are a lot of reasons the bullet companies arrive at a max load for their guides. The numbers have definitely changed through the years. I have several older guides with max loads for some cartridges that are WAY higher than the current guides. One reason may be the lawyers, another reason is that they didn't have the modern pressure testing equipment when they developed the loads 50 years ago. Excess pressure was determined when they got the traditional pressure signs like flat primers, sticky bolts etc. Truth is, those traditional indicators are NOT reliable and usually only show up when you have far exceeded SAMMI Maximum Average Pressure limits.

Another discussion would be when it MAY be safe to exceed SAMMI MAP limits. The 7x57 is a good example of this. Because of a large number of OLD rifles in this cartridge, loading guide data is absolutely lethargic. I will definitely push this cartridge beyond the max velocities shown in the guides when using modern rifles like my Ruger M77.

The 7mm Remington Magnum is another one that I will push to the limit and maybe a little beyond. When it was approved by SAMMI, it was given a lower MAP limit due to wide pressure variations in one bullet / powder combo. IIRC, this combo was with 175 gr bullets and H4831 powder. As a result, it was given a 61000 psi MAP instead of 63-65000 MAP like many other modern cartridges. Does this mean it isn't safe to push 140 gr Accubonds to 65000 psi? I'll let you guess what I think about that...

There are many other examples but it's important to understand that your gun and the chronograph will tell you when you've gone too far. If your load testing by raising the powder charge in 1 gr increments and your velocities suddenly show a large spread, you've probably pushed too hard. It's not really dangerous to find this point as long as it's a modern rifle in good condition. You really have to fugg up with the wrong powder to blow up a rifle with one hot load.

If you want to go down a rabbit hole about pressure go to the 24 HCF forum. Go to the archives thread and find discussions by the late Ken Howell. Brilliant man.

Good info, Thanks !

Yes, absolutely some great info here.

I've been loading for 20 years, and there's still a staggering amount of things to learn. Rewarding hobby is an understatement.

Actually great question!
When I start load development I find max pressure for that bullet /powder combo I'm after.

I work up in .3 increments to max most times.
Have to take into consideration if it's 50° or 95°

Every chamber and piece of brass are different and you have to find your max .your reloading manual is a starting point

Otherwise if your shooting mix match brass and different lots brass and bullets just load down or carefully approach max

I shoot all my brass on same number of firings

So no I don't shoot over max my rifle tells me at load development.maybe over book but I don't care my brass and extraction tells me so