Why is Errbody an expert on this? There is no middle ground from what I read. Shootem all or don’t shoot any. I will always shoot does and always will. The don’t shoot em camp is always putting down the shooters and blaming the insurance company for the wide open season. The shootem up camp seems to be sort of meh about the whole thing. People ought to just enjoy life and not worry about the other guy. If you let em, somebody will take your happiness.

No expert here!! We shoot does and really enjoy shooting them. Especially the old blowing ones. Our goal each year is to try to kill 1 doe per 100acres of property we have. No science behind it. It’s just what we do.

It’s pretty simple, You just need to get on the same page as the folks you hunt with.

We have 3 does and 3 bucks per membership at our place.

Between all 15 of us we have shot no does and 2 bucks

We are Seeing tons of does with multiple fawns and bucks are moving in daylight hours.

We have good deer numbers and some solid bucks at our place.

When rut hits we get flooded with new bucks coming onto our place to check all the does.

To each his own, I don’t knock anyone who wants to shoot a doe.

If you want to shoot does go ahead I have no problem with it.

We can pile them up if we wanted, that’s just not what we are trying to do at our place.

Our members know the quality of deer we have and they like seeing quantity of deer when they hunt.

Doe killing should be based on objectives. It shouldn’t be a guess. Every trigger pull is a management decision. Most of the properties we manage we take them pretty heavy, but it’s to correct sex ratios or keep them where we want them to be. I do not understand the mentality of leaving does as bait for bucks. Long drawn out ruts are terribly physically demanding and do NOT lead to healthier deer period. They don’t even lead to higher birth rates. Actually the opposite in some cases. That’s why it’s important to get someone to assist in achieving deer management objectives. Not killing them can have very bad results. Killing too many can also have very bad results. It’s a balance and it very well can be vastly different just a few miles from each other.

Matt. Can you go into detail on how having a high doe population can have a negative affect on birthrates ? I'm genuinely interested.

I don’t shoot them, but don’t have any problem with killing does. Leaving the does to attract bucks for during the rut has been our management plane for years across several different properties. It has proven to work great for us. It just really depends on the property. Not all properties can be setup that way in my experience.

You just have to do what best fits your management objectives.

In a healthy population the majority of does are going to come into estrous within a 10-14 day window. With a relatively balanced sex ratio they will all get bred. The bucks don’t have stress of continuing to rut another cycle or perhaps two in some cases where sex ratios are terribly skewed in favor of females. Limiting that breeding stress is better on every deer in the population. You keep sex ratios and populations in check with habitat condition and the does are all healthy enough to produce twins or triplets. If does continue to go into estrous every 28 days or so until they’re bred it places a high degree of stress on bucks, increases injury, fighting, rut mortality, and stresses them to the point that body condition and antler expression are suppressed. These does often times have lower recruitment rates than those in better condition and better habitat. Also, coyotes are better at learning to hunt fawns in areas with longer ruts. Short window=less predation. Longer window=more predation.

It really all comes down to habitat condition. Better habitat equals healthier deer and higher harvest rates. You start high harvest rates in poor habitat and you can have a bad experience quickly.

Thanks for the input.

We shot 15 at my place 4 yrs ago and the buck doe ratio flourished. More bucks moved in. We didn't shoot any for a year, then shot 5. Shot 4 last year. Going to shoot 10 this year. We average 6 bucks 8 pt or better, outside the ears each year between myself, wife, and son. We killed 9 last year. We have killed 5 bucks this year already that fit the above criteria. This is small acreage (less than 200) surrounded by larger tracts. I'm not an expert on this stuff but thinning them as we see the buck doe ratio get way out of whack seems to help. We see deer every sit. Regardless of weather, wind, etc.

^^^ You must have some fantastic neighbors!

That's the issue with smaller tracts like mine.

Yeah trying to manage on a population level is futile without help from neighbors. That’s why I push cooperatives! You either have to own and control thousands of acres or have ppl willing to work alongside you to accomplish it together.

^^^ All privately owned. One neighbor shoots nothing but bucks. No matter what it is. He believes that if you shoot does you won't have any bucks.

The other 2 follow similar to what we do. We don't really communicate. We have in the past and it has just kind of stuck. We are blessed with a great property. We only hunt about 13 acres of the total. We hunt travel routes and have (1) 3/4 acre greenfield. We stay out of the rest of it but, I am constantly in and out if the 13 acre part we hunt. I feed protein all year. I fill feeders at night when I get home from work. It works. We are not killing giants, probably could with a little better trigger control but we work hard and a lot and enjoy killing deer. We are happy with what we kill and the neighbors oh and ah over what we do kill.

I don’t think very many hunters have much perspective on why they shoot them or don’t…….They’re just taking a WAG and/or repeating something they heard from the QDMA……

If I’m hunting a small property I’d be much more apt to using does as bait and leaving them alone……You’re not trying to “manage” the deer herd with your 100 acres nor can you….. …….The purpose of stockpiling does in that situation and using them as bait is so that hopefully all the other people around you are blasting their does and then you get to cherry pick some of the best bucks in the area from all the properties around you that come in to set up shop where the higher concentration of does exist that you keep on your property year after year. Bucks that have been around for a while know where the green field is at that has 25 does on it year in and year out versus the ones that only have 5……They go back to those high concentration spots that are known hot spots where they found does in the past

Any detailed info on cooperatives ? Or is it just an informal agreement ?

Exactly my situation.

Nothing formal with the ones I work with, but I have seen formal cooperatives. You’re basically just getting a verbal agreement from everyone on the same objectives and working together for the benefit of the wildlife, instead of “I’m going to do things my way and to heck with all of y’all” which is VERY prevalent.

I got way way to many in wilcox - hope i can take 3-4 more but prob could take 10 but hate doing it especially n 1 stand. Hate pressure but i got way-way to many

I’ll shoot one with a bow, but not a rifle. I get no pleasure killing gnome with a rifle. No challenge to me.