They have a 2 buck and 4 doe limit

Sounds right. Think in the mid 90s it was 2 bucks and 3 does, with an either sex tag you could use for an additional buck rather than the 4th doe. I think I'm remembering that correctly... been a few mins. That bonus tag may have been region specific? I grew up in the liberal season eastern zone. Google also says approx 250,000 deer hunters in NC. Have no idea of its accuracy, but believe it. LOTS more people in NC than AL.. so it's just statistical logic that there be lots of hunters.

They steady killing deer up there regardless... kill them like that every year and hasn't slowed down since the 90s.

North Carolina is also about 2,000,000 acres bigger than Alabama

Y’all can point to all of these other states but the fact remains that each state has its own set of variables that influences how much impact baiting has on the deer herd……

For the most impacted areas like the ones listed above…..Montgomery Co….Covington Co……etc…….hunters are about to be faced with one of two choices…. 1) accept the new normal with your herd numbers…..or…..2) start beating the drum for new rules……Keep in mind that we haven’t reached “the new normal” yet……That occurs once these high doe harvest numbers peak, decline, and level back out……

There are a significant amount of acres that are in the mountains and are hunted very little due to jacked up terrain and a significant amount of acres that are pocosin/marshland that aren't hunted that much along the coast due to minimal access and poor deer habitat. The acres difference is going to be closer than you think.

The fact is, baiting hasn't destroyed NC's deer hunting and it's been going on from the start. And in my mind, NC and AL aren't that much different. We can agree to disagree.. I'm good with that.

Well one thing is that you're mischaracterizing the situation by calling it “destroying the deer herd”……I mean I guess that sounds good to the readers..…..The reality is that it indeed does have an impact and the only question is how much……

I’ll give the state this……In this type of situation you either have the choice to make new rules ahead of time and risk over compensating or wait and monitor the level of impact and adjust accordingly after the fact……The second one sounds like the way to go really but in the meantime we’re just sitting here watching some areas go through another deer slaughter knowing its occurring…….I think tags, a 2 buck limit, and maybe even some more restrictive doe days is what we’ll eventually see to try and balance it all out just like these other states have

Tags and limits is the solution, kill them however you want.

What is the point?

Reduce doe harvest?
Every place I know of and or person where they hunt are having no problems seeing does. Matter of fact all of them are saying they’re seeing way more does this year if you’re gonna use the hunter sighting/reporting system.

I’ll throw this caveat out there just to show that I am open minded to all possibilities……I’m not totally convinced that feeding the amount of corn were feeding is not impacting reproduction rates…..I’ve seen deer skinned that had to have gobs of fat peeled off of them from eating corn……I would think that how females over winter would have the potential to impact reproduction…….That doesn’t mean the end result is more fawns though……But I will concede that there is that potential and if that were to prove true then the stuff we’ve been talking about wouldn’t be as relevant…….

I just don’t think that’s happening though…….I just don’t hear guys from Montgomery Co for example talking about how the deer population has suddenly exploded……You actually hear guys talking about seeing less…….The trend line will eventually show us the truth……If the increased harvest is sustainable then then line wont crash back down…….

According to google, NC has 31.4 million acres and Alabama has 33 million acres.

I’ll say that when I deer hunted it was 2 does a day or 1 buck and or 1 doe a day. That was changed to only 2 deer a day and only 1 doe or 1 buck but combined for 2. So there was a reduction in legal harvest. All of my friends that deer hunt have been saying they’re seeing 8-10-15-20 does on a field and no bucks or only little ones. With the expansion of CWD zone and 2 does a day allowed they’re happy they as one side will do their part. None want on dmap so there’s that. Some have allowed many folks to come shoot does but they rarely do and some have shot small buck and not invited back.

I’m gonna take a wild guess as to reductions in some areas may be due to human expansions. Habit being destroyed or significantly changed.
Pretty sure some subspecies don’t reproduce as much as others so I’d guess that’s a limiting factor. I’ve heard some of the certain subspecies in Bankhead struggle to reproduce at rates similar to other restocked subspecies

Not true in my area

See that’s the problem
Can’t pigeonhole the so-called problem For some it is and for others it’s not

......and that's exactly what I said.........

You know what’s kind of ironic and adds an interesting layer of drama to it all if you could be a fly on the wall……Its that like we’ve said this impact is effecting some areas more so than others…….Some of the “powers that be” hunt in areas that probably aren’t seeing much change……while some of the other top brass hunt in some of the counties that appear to be getting impacted the most…….I bet nobody anticipated Montgomery Co getting hammered like it is….. That will probably make for some interesting conversation at some point along the line if it hasn’t yet…….

I sure don't hear the gun shots like I used to around here. I don't think I've heard more than a couple any day this season. Moat days don't hear any

The tone is still killing too many does when it’s not remotely true. Some areas it is, some areas it’s not. It’s that simple

Getting folks angry and in a collective moves the needle. I’ve personally watched it happen and the lies generated were no where near the truth. unhappy folks with their deer season are looking for clues and lay blame quickly.

One friend hasn’t seen a deer on their lease and land. Fields are knee high and no pics either. Less than 1/2 mile away another friend is seeing more deer than ever on his little place. Combined those two tracts are less than 350 acres combined. Add in three more landowners and it may reach 1 square mile of mixed habitat mostly mature pines and hardwoods in ann acorn-less year. Not far away and kinda in between is a rather large tract of early successional mixed with young pine plantations with hardwood drains.

Guess where the deer are?

Mother Nature is too fluid and dynamic to say this is it!!!!! It’s not usually one thing but a multitude of this, that and the others depending on how many “ifs” and “buts” there are.

I’ll admit to not seeing the forrest for the trees myself.

Used to argue with hogwild that you couldn’t kill too many does. My perspective was coming from large acreage tracts like our 5000 acre club and the other 2-30000 acre clubs I knew.

Not until he mentioned land owners from 40-120 acres killing 5-10 does off their place per year did I realize what he was saying. Yes they were killing too many and QDMA was blamed. Yet QDMA never said to do that, they constantly said if you were a small acreage landowner to work with your neighbors to determine what was needed done. They were blamed to the point I noticed they renamed their organization.

The fault was overzealous members and not understanding the mission statement. I’ll be the first to own some of that but it’s just as true for the opposite side if not more so since it’s been established in tradition. Bucks only as long as I’ve known deer hunting. Doe killers were beneath scum of the earth.

That’s kinda what let the air out of my sails with the big club. Not the baiting issue since it was still illegal at that time. Just using your point as a reference

We had 5000 acres and still couldn’t get guys over the mindset that I paid 1200 and should be allowed to kill a buck. They call it the up-oh buck. Then those are the exact same ones complaining not seeing any mature bucks. You’d think at some point they realize what’s happening. 😂

I know all things are not the same. At the farm for every doe killed 2-4 will fill the void. Been that way for years. Farmer neighbor says he’s done shooting them and increasing the population. He’s been stealing them from the lease up in the hills where timber harvest have kept perfect habitat for growing a deer herd exist. They’re the incubator so to speak. Those cutovers are growing up and losing their browse so hopefully in a few years the beans won’t be targeted like the past few years. Then again how far will momma does travel?

I know the state probably doesn’t want anyone hearing this but for the resident Alabama hunter you should be cognizant of the amount of out of state hunters that are being let in when these proposed changes get brought forth…….You’re basically reducing your bag limits to allow for a bunch of extra out of state hunters to come in and bait…….I’m just saying that if I were the one “negotiating” for the Alabama residents I would demand that limits be put on the amount of folks who are allowed in before taking my rights away just so the state can sell more licenses. I’m guessing that’s at least part of where a lot of the south Alabama impact is stemming from….more out of staters being packed in to certain counties….