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Re: Quality deer management [Re: 2Dogs] #4254177
12/29/24 01:51 PM
12/29/24 01:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,714
USA
M
marshmud991 Offline
14 point
marshmud991  Offline
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USA
Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by marshmud991
Y’all think more bucks are being killed during those 10 days in February then they were when you could kill a buck every day of the season? I know we can’t buy a buck on our place after the last few days of January in most years. However on a buddy’s place in Clark county, their rut is just starting when ours shuts down.

It’s not the total number of bucks being killed that’s the issue. It’s the selection of age classes that’s the issue. Back when you could a buck a day without cameras and legal bait, harvest was evenly distributed across age classes. There were still deer making it into the upper age classes. That’s why so many deer were killed back then in the 140-150-160+ category. Nowadays, those bucks aren’t making it , because there’s more opportunity and it’s WAY easier to kill one, leading to the top of the age class bracket in many populations being 3 and an occasional 4 year old.


Not in our area , in the heyday of a buck a day , most didn't live long enough up here to make it to 140+ . I know groups of hunters that each one would kill 10-15 , some would get up around 20+ bucks a year. Back then a 140" was a big deal and rare . The best times were probably after the 3 buck limit but before legal baiting for killing big un. If you knew how to killem.

When we first started hunting the place we had in Georgiana we were surrounded by big dog cubs. We had many conversations with those guys and them telling us about the 100s of bucks they’d kill every season. Now this was 3 different big clubs. One even told us that they had no buck restrictions when running dogs but if someone stalk hunted they had to shoot 6pt or better. I asked him what was the point of the 6pt rule. I kid you not, his response was to help grow better bucks!! Yet they were shooting anything with a visible antler in front of the dogs!! slap


It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.


Re: Quality deer management [Re: CrappieMan] #4254184
12/29/24 02:03 PM
12/29/24 02:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,048
Right behind you
Mbrock Offline
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Originally Posted by CrappieMan
Originally Posted by Mbrock
And I’ve been saying it for years and not many ppl get it, but there will come a day when those with the money, land and means to manage habitats and impact wildlife in a positive way, throw their hands up and say to heck with it. It’s funny to me that those are the guys everyone calls the crybabies, complainers, and spoiled ones. That couldn’t be any more wrong. When THOSE guys quit caring about their land because they can’t enjoy it the way they want to, due to all their neighbors having greedy and itchy trigger fingers, the entire state will suffer from it, including those ppl riding their shirt tails off their hard work. It’s true whether anyone wants to admit it or not.

I'm with you 100 percent but even with the several thousand acres I manage there's always gonna be neighbors regardless if you have 100 or 5000 acres. The only 100 percent way you'll ever manage a place like you want it is by fencing it.

That’s why I encourage cooperatives and great relationships. Work with each other rather than against. Nobody wins if we all have the mentality that I’m going to do what I want and dig in even harder every time it’s brought up. That goes both ways, for trophy hunters and meat hunters.

Re: Quality deer management [Re: Mbrock] #4254191
12/29/24 02:16 PM
12/29/24 02:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,182
Awbarn, AL
CNC Online content
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Online Content
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,182
Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted by Mbrock
That’s why I encourage cooperatives and great relationships. Work with each other rather than against. Nobody wins if we all have the mentality that I’m going to do what I want and dig in even harder every time it’s brought up. That goes both ways, for trophy hunters and meat hunters.


That’s why I’m throwing out the idea that trophy hunters in counties like say Montgomery……might want to consider pulling back the reins on doe harvest and allow the meat hunters to “manage” the doe herd…..I can tell you from talking to hunters that I dont think anybody has a clue that doe harvest has just increased 49% in Montgomery Co and the bigger landowners/clubs are still having the same old conversation about the importance of shooting does……If the smaller parcel hunters around you want to fill their freezer then you don’t have to worry so much about reaching that doe quota…….That doesn’t fix the overharvesting of bucks but it does help curtail overall population decline

Last edited by CNC; 12/29/24 02:17 PM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Quality deer management [Re: Mbrock] #4254192
12/29/24 02:16 PM
12/29/24 02:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,593
Crenshaw
C
CrappieMan Offline
8 point
CrappieMan  Offline
8 point
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,593
Crenshaw
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by CrappieMan
Originally Posted by Mbrock
And I’ve been saying it for years and not many ppl get it, but there will come a day when those with the money, land and means to manage habitats and impact wildlife in a positive way, throw their hands up and say to heck with it. It’s funny to me that those are the guys everyone calls the crybabies, complainers, and spoiled ones. That couldn’t be any more wrong. When THOSE guys quit caring about their land because they can’t enjoy it the way they want to, due to all their neighbors having greedy and itchy trigger fingers, the entire state will suffer from it, including those ppl riding their shirt tails off their hard work. It’s true whether anyone wants to admit it or not.

I'm with you 100 percent but even with the several thousand acres I manage there's always gonna be neighbors regardless if you have 100 or 5000 acres. The only 100 percent way you'll ever manage a place like you want it is by fencing it.

That’s why I encourage cooperatives and great relationships. Work with each other rather than against. Nobody wins if we all have the mentality that I’m going to do what I want and dig in even harder every time it’s brought up. That goes both ways, for trophy hunters and meat hunters.

Some people who own land have hunted the same way for years and are not gonna change. 2 land owners that border us might shoot a 150 today then shootna spike tomorrow. They just do as they please because they can.

Re: Quality deer management [Re: Rudy] #4254245
12/29/24 03:45 PM
12/29/24 03:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,121
Mobile, AL
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Pwyse Offline
12 point
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Mobile, AL
Where I hunt, it seems mature bucks are easier to kill in the Feb season than in the rut. In our area the rut is pretty much over by then and the bucks are on any food source HARD for about 10 days. All you have to do is sit over a good food source for as long as you can. They feed all hours of the day. They are STARVING at this point.

Re: Quality deer management [Re: Pwyse] #4254277
12/29/24 04:17 PM
12/29/24 04:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,048
Right behind you
Mbrock Offline
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Originally Posted by Pwyse
Where I hunt, it seems mature bucks are easier to kill in the Feb season than in the rut. In our area the rut is pretty much over by then and the bucks are on any food source HARD for about 10 days. All you have to do is sit over a good food source for as long as you can. They feed all hours of the day. They are STARVING at this point.

Precisely the reason I HATE it. It’s a full month after peak breeding here. Deer that survived the breeding season are the most vulnerable they’ve been all year and adding to the buck harvest that late is biologically irresponsible.

Re: Quality deer management [Re: Mbrock] #4254291
12/29/24 04:39 PM
12/29/24 04:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,714
USA
M
marshmud991 Offline
14 point
marshmud991  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,714
USA
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by Pwyse
Where I hunt, it seems mature bucks are easier to kill in the Feb season than in the rut. In our area the rut is pretty much over by then and the bucks are on any food source HARD for about 10 days. All you have to do is sit over a good food source for as long as you can. They feed all hours of the day. They are STARVING at this point.

Precisely the reason I HATE it. It’s a full month after peak breeding here. Deer that survived the breeding season are the most vulnerable they’ve been all year and adding to the buck harvest that late is biologically irresponsible.

We see more bucks in March and April then we did the few times I hunted the first couple years they added the February days. I guess they either shut down for a while after the rut.


It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.


Re: Quality deer management [Re: CNC] #4254297
12/29/24 04:44 PM
12/29/24 04:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,665
Elmore County
Frankie Online content
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Online Content
Old Mossy Horns
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Posts: 17,665
Elmore County
Originally Posted by CNC
I bet buck age structure was better before the Feb extension.....




Bet it was better before trophy management too

Re: Quality deer management [Re: Rudy] #4254303
12/29/24 04:48 PM
12/29/24 04:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,593
Crenshaw
C
CrappieMan Offline
8 point
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Crenshaw
The 10 days shouldn't have been added statewide. It was originally put in place because some in this part of the state were missing the rut that was firing up as the season was ending the last of January. Heck I can remember having doe days down here and now we're overrun with does. Sure was alot more fun when I was a kid leaving out at daylight with 4,s 6,s, 8,s and buckshot. Shaking vines in the river swamp and it was pretty much anything goes that was edible.

Re: Quality deer management [Re: Mbrock] #4254328
12/29/24 05:46 PM
12/29/24 05:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,843
Clanton
Turkey_neck Offline
Booner
Turkey_neck  Offline
Booner
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Clanton
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by CNC
Originally Posted by marshmud991
Originally Posted by CNC
I bet buck age structure was better before the Feb extension.....

Why?


Because a lot of counties have 15-25% of the annual buck harvest occur in those 10 days…….I'd have to go back and look but I think some counties may have even been a little higher at like 30%

That’s 100% true. After cameras, corn and Feb extension the number of mature bucks we’ve had to hunt has dwindled a lot depending on location. Everybody is hammering the really nice 2-3 year olds. It’s getting frustrating. The days of killing mature deer are not as easy in some places cause there aren’t as many as there used to be when random harvest was occurring. Now it’s a targeted take with heavy high grading. Is what it is.

Exactly the problem


Would walk over a naked woman to get to a gobblin turkey!
Re: Quality deer management [Re: Pwyse] #4254348
12/29/24 06:21 PM
12/29/24 06:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 36,979
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
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Posts: 36,979
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted by Pwyse
Where I hunt, it seems mature bucks are easier to kill in the Feb season than in the rut. In our area the rut is pretty much over by then and the bucks are on any food source HARD for about 10 days. All you have to do is sit over a good food source for as long as you can. They feed all hours of the day. They are STARVING at this point.


Those last 2-3 weeks , over a corn pile, in the woods, is easy pickins' .



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Quality deer management [Re: Rudy] #4254355
12/29/24 06:34 PM
12/29/24 06:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,593
Crenshaw
C
CrappieMan Offline
8 point
CrappieMan  Offline
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Crenshaw
We should just make it does only for 4 yrs then the whole problems fixed.

Re: Quality deer management [Re: Mbrock] #4254357
12/29/24 06:35 PM
12/29/24 06:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,121
Mobile, AL
P
Pwyse Offline
12 point
Pwyse  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,121
Mobile, AL
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by Pwyse
Where I hunt, it seems mature bucks are easier to kill in the Feb season than in the rut. In our area the rut is pretty much over by then and the bucks are on any food source HARD for about 10 days. All you have to do is sit over a good food source for as long as you can. They feed all hours of the day. They are STARVING at this point.

Precisely the reason I HATE it. It’s a full month after peak breeding here. Deer that survived the breeding season are the most vulnerable they’ve been all year and adding to the buck harvest that late is biologically irresponsible.


It’s really only about a week and an half after peak breeding here. Most of our members don’t hunt that February time because they are burnt out from hunting the rut so hard. But to kill one you got to be willing to sit awhile. They might be there at 10 AM there is no general feed time. They are hungry 24/7.

Re: Quality deer management [Re: CrappieMan] #4254361
12/29/24 06:36 PM
12/29/24 06:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 36,979
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
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Boxes Cove
Originally Posted by CrappieMan
The 10 days shouldn't have been added statewide. It was originally put in place because some in this part of the state were missing the rut that was firing up as the season was ending the last of January. Heck I can remember having doe days down here and now we're overrun with does. Sure was alot more fun when I was a kid leaving out at daylight with 4,s 6,s, 8,s and buckshot. Shaking vines in the river swamp and it was pretty much anything goes that was edible.


Well I hate to beat a dead horse , but Chuck Sykes told me , not long after he got the Directors job, face to face, there would not be a Feb. season in North Alabama . His words , "there's no biological reason for it." After it was implemented , Game and Fish had a meeting in Scottsboro , Chuck was to be the keynote speaker. I reminded him of what he'd told me earlier about not having a Feb season in NA. He told me give it a few years and when they get data , the season will go back to the last day of Jan. Well I reckon they haven't gotten any data , because it hasn't moved back. However, I suspect I was lied to twice on the subject .

Keep in mind when the Feb extension was implemented , there were at least two owner/operators of high fence operations on the CAB board. One of which was the current Lt. Governor's brother.






"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Quality deer management [Re: CNC] #4254372
12/29/24 06:51 PM
12/29/24 06:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,730
lauderdale co
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brushwhacker Offline
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lauderdale co
Originally Posted by CNC
Here it is.....This is from last year.....Its the percent of last year's buck harvest that occurred Feb 1-10

[Linked Image]


If this is true I don’t understand why season is open in feb in northwest alabama . Make very little difference . Rut is over by Jan 1 an all deer has run in a hole or been shot . An every hunter is tired of hunting . Hard to find a buck here after the rut. Across the line in southren tn deer are dropping antlers in feb.


Brushwacker
Re: Quality deer management [Re: Rudy] #4254389
12/29/24 07:02 PM
12/29/24 07:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,182
Awbarn, AL
CNC Online content
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
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Awbarn, AL
Here's the same map for does last year......Definitely a lot of deer being killed in those 10 Feb days.......

[Linked Image]

Last edited by CNC; 12/29/24 07:03 PM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Quality deer management [Re: Rudy] #4254391
12/29/24 07:03 PM
12/29/24 07:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 4,118
North Al.
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Paint Rock 00 Online content
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Don’t hunt February. Leave them alone. December-January is long enough to loose sleep, wet and cold and clean mud from the driveway. Throw the corn and sweet feed out, new camera batteries and see what slipped by ya all year. Ya really don’t have to go in February just because season is open.

Last edited by Paint Rock 00; 12/29/24 07:04 PM.
Re: Quality deer management [Re: brushwhacker] #4254473
12/29/24 09:21 PM
12/29/24 09:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
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Right behind you
Mbrock Offline
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Originally Posted by brushwhacker
Originally Posted by CNC
Here it is.....This is from last year.....Its the percent of last year's buck harvest that occurred Feb 1-10

[Linked Image]


If this is true I don’t understand why season is open in feb in northwest alabama . Make very little difference . Rut is over by Jan 1 an all deer has run in a hole or been shot . An every hunter is tired of hunting . Hard to find a buck here after the rut. Across the line in southren tn deer are dropping antlers in feb.

They’re dropping antlers in north AL in late January and early February and I’ve got plenty of info I’ve given the agency. Apparently they don’t care.

Last edited by Mbrock; 12/29/24 09:21 PM.
Re: Quality deer management [Re: Paint Rock 00] #4254474
12/29/24 09:22 PM
12/29/24 09:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,048
Right behind you
Mbrock Offline
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Mbrock  Offline
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Right behind you
Originally Posted by Paint Rock 00
Don’t hunt February. Leave them alone. December-January is long enough to loose sleep, wet and cold and clean mud from the driveway. Throw the corn and sweet feed out, new camera batteries and see what slipped by ya all year. Ya really don’t have to go in February just because season is open.

Some people are going to hunt until the last second because they can, and grin from ear to ear knowing they’ve killed the last deer. You can’t provide opportunity to the public without expecting them to exploit it.

Re: Quality deer management [Re: Rudy] #4254500
12/29/24 10:11 PM
12/29/24 10:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,509
Scottsboro, Al
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jbatey1 Offline
Lucky Bastage
jbatey1  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
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Scottsboro, Al
Matt, do you ever think our state will go toward seasons where we have a more limited rifle seasons and etc or what’s the reason for some states having it and not others? The terrain and ease of killing deer with rifles in flat land?

Not saying I’m for it or against it, just curious.


The fool tells me his reasons; the wise man persuades me with my own.
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