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Question for my friend, Matt Brock... #4254715
12/30/24 12:07 PM
12/30/24 12:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,470
Central Alabama
Cuz-Pat Offline OP
Booner
Cuz-Pat  Offline OP
Booner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,470
Central Alabama
I just finished watching a video done by a wildlife biologist over in Mississippi, on does and twin fawns. This guy said in his video that most "average" does will birth twin fawns. He also said something that I have never thought about or heard of. He said research has proven that in breeding pens, and in the wild, 25% of the time the twin fawns the doe is carrying are sired by different bucks. Twin A is sired by buck #1 and twin B can be sired by buck #2. Never heard this and surely did not know it was possible.

In this world we live in today, one cannot go through life blindly believing everything you see or read. You really have no way to know what is true or false without asking an expert.

Matt, expound on this please. I'd like to hear your expert opinion.

I can trust what I hear from you, I firmly believe. thumbup

All the rest of my fellow Aldeer members feel free to comment but Matt's answer will be what I hang my hat on... grin


Cuz-Pat

Patton's European Mounts
Professional Quality Skull & Antler Taxidermy
Since 1998
Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: Cuz-Pat] #4254735
12/30/24 12:52 PM
12/30/24 12:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,057
Right behind you
Mbrock Offline
Fancy
Mbrock  Offline
Fancy
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Posts: 9,057
Right behind you
That video is Dr Demariais, who was one of my MSU professors and mentors. He’s 100% correct. Does can be bred by multiple bucks, and her offspring can all be sired by different bucks UNLESS they’re identical twins from one split egg.

He’s also one of the very first deer biologist who explained to me that tooth wear aging past 2.5 is not a reliable aging method. I started paying attention to that afterwards and he’s 100% correct on that too.

Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: Cuz-Pat] #4254748
12/30/24 01:25 PM
12/30/24 01:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,191
Kennedy, al
G
globe Offline
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globe  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,191
Kennedy, al
I’ve always heard this about dogs. Never though about deer.


Everything woke turns to shucks
Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: Cuz-Pat] #4254756
12/30/24 01:47 PM
12/30/24 01:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,470
Central Alabama
Cuz-Pat Offline OP
Booner
Cuz-Pat  Offline OP
Booner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,470
Central Alabama
Thanks for the clarification. Something I had just never thought about. It's amazing to me how God makes all these things work, by His design.


Cuz-Pat

Patton's European Mounts
Professional Quality Skull & Antler Taxidermy
Since 1998
Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: Cuz-Pat] #4254788
12/30/24 02:37 PM
12/30/24 02:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,671
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,671
Elmore County
Been common knowledge for any years i thought .

Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: Cuz-Pat] #4254790
12/30/24 02:40 PM
12/30/24 02:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,406
IN
P
ParrotHead89 Offline
10 point
ParrotHead89  Offline
10 point
P
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,406
IN
We had twin girls at school couple years ago that had different dads?? Upstanding young woman of course

Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: Cuz-Pat] #4254794
12/30/24 02:47 PM
12/30/24 02:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 4,122
North Al.
P
Paint Rock 00 Offline
10 point
Paint Rock 00  Offline
10 point
P
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 4,122
North Al.
We have/see twin fawns seems like every year or so. Thanks for asking the question and thanks for the answer.

Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: Mbrock] #4254800
12/30/24 02:54 PM
12/30/24 02:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,950
Tuscaloosa Co.
N
N2TRKYS Offline
Booner
N2TRKYS  Offline
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N
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,950
Tuscaloosa Co.
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Does can be bred by multiple bucks, and her offspring can all be sired by different bucks UNLESS they’re identical twins from one split egg.


What’s the percentage of twins being born by a split egg?


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: Mbrock] #4254833
12/30/24 03:45 PM
12/30/24 03:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 674
Behind some dogs
000buck Offline
4 point
000buck  Offline
4 point
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 674
Behind some dogs
Originally Posted by Mbrock
That video is Dr Demariais, who was one of my MSU professors and mentors. He’s 100% correct. Does can be bred by multiple bucks, and her offspring can all be sired by different bucks UNLESS they’re identical twins from one split egg.

He’s also one of the very first deer biologist who explained to me that tooth wear aging past 2.5 is not a reliable aging method. I started paying attention to that afterwards and he’s 100% correct on that too.


Not to de rail the post, but what is the best aging source if not teeth?

Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: Cuz-Pat] #4254838
12/30/24 04:00 PM
12/30/24 04:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,671
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,671
Elmore County
000 , I always if you could tell by the skull plate thickness.

Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: N2TRKYS] #4254840
12/30/24 04:01 PM
12/30/24 04:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,057
Right behind you
Mbrock Offline
Fancy
Mbrock  Offline
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,057
Right behind you
Originally Posted by N2TRKYS
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Does can be bred by multiple bucks, and her offspring can all be sired by different bucks UNLESS they’re identical twins from one split egg.


What’s the percentage of twins being born by a split egg?

I have no idea. The majority of twins are from two separate egg releases.

Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: 000buck] #4254841
12/30/24 04:04 PM
12/30/24 04:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 29,410
Fosters, Alabama, USA
Shaw Offline
Administrator
Shaw  Offline
Administrator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 29,410
Fosters, Alabama, USA
Originally Posted by 000buck


Not to de rail the post, but what is the best aging source if not teeth?


[Linked Image]


"I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it." Captain Woodrow F. Call
Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: 000buck] #4254844
12/30/24 04:07 PM
12/30/24 04:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 793
Alabama
chevydude2015 Offline
4 point
chevydude2015  Offline
4 point
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 793
Alabama
Originally Posted by 000buck
Originally Posted by Mbrock
That video is Dr Demariais, who was one of my MSU professors and mentors. He’s 100% correct. Does can be bred by multiple bucks, and her offspring can all be sired by different bucks UNLESS they’re identical twins from one split egg.

He’s also one of the very first deer biologist who explained to me that tooth wear aging past 2.5 is not a reliable aging method. I started paying attention to that afterwards and he’s 100% correct on that too.


Not to de rail the post, but what is the best aging source if not teeth?


What I gathered from Matt’s post the other day is that teeth ARE the best thing to age a deer by (outside of multiple years of camera photos) but it’s not the wearing of the teeth you need to look at. There are a few companies that offer a testing/examining of the teeth that Matt says is much more accurate. I posted a link to one the other day when I stumbled across it and asked the question on here

Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: chevydude2015] #4254870
12/30/24 04:42 PM
12/30/24 04:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,057
Right behind you
Mbrock Offline
Fancy
Mbrock  Offline
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,057
Right behind you
Originally Posted by chevydude2015
Originally Posted by 000buck
Originally Posted by Mbrock
That video is Dr Demariais, who was one of my MSU professors and mentors. He’s 100% correct. Does can be bred by multiple bucks, and her offspring can all be sired by different bucks UNLESS they’re identical twins from one split egg.

He’s also one of the very first deer biologist who explained to me that tooth wear aging past 2.5 is not a reliable aging method. I started paying attention to that afterwards and he’s 100% correct on that too.


Not to de rail the post, but what is the best aging source if not teeth?


What I gathered from Matt’s post the other day is that teeth ARE the best thing to age a deer by (outside of multiple years of camera photos) but it’s not the wearing of the teeth you need to look at. There are a few companies that offer a testing/examining of the teeth that Matt says is much more accurate. I posted a link to one the other day when I stumbled across it and asked the question on here

Yes, cementum annuli is the most accurate method without having a tag in its ear at birth.

Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: Cuz-Pat] #4254879
12/30/24 04:57 PM
12/30/24 04:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 674
Behind some dogs
000buck Offline
4 point
000buck  Offline
4 point
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 674
Behind some dogs
thumbup

Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: Cuz-Pat] #4254890
12/30/24 05:14 PM
12/30/24 05:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 7,045
Tuscaloosa
Booger Offline
Picker
Booger  Offline
Picker
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 7,045
Tuscaloosa
Originally Posted by Cuz-Pat
I just finished watching a video done by a wildlife biologist over in Mississippi, on does and twin fawns. This guy said in his video that most "average" does will birth twin fawns. He also said something that I have never thought about or heard of. He said research has proven that in breeding pens, and in the wild, 25% of the time the twin fawns the doe is carrying are sired by different bucks. Twin A is sired by buck #1 and twin B can be sired by buck #2. Never heard this and surely did not know it was possible.

In this world we live in today, one cannot go through life blindly believing everything you see or read. You really have no way to know what is true or false without asking an expert.

Matt, expound on this please. I'd like to hear your expert opinion.

I can trust what I hear from you, I firmly believe. thumbup

All the rest of my fellow Aldeer members feel free to comment but Matt's answer will be what I hang my hat on... grin


It has happened to humans many times.


GO NOLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: Shaw] #4254918
12/30/24 06:04 PM
12/30/24 06:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,470
Central Alabama
Cuz-Pat Offline OP
Booner
Cuz-Pat  Offline OP
Booner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,470
Central Alabama
Originally Posted by Shaw
Originally Posted by 000buck


Not to de rail the post, but what is the best aging source if not teeth?


[Linked Image]


The average hunter could probably afford to get that done but would probably not spend the coin to do it. $75.00 per deer. Not me.


Cuz-Pat

Patton's European Mounts
Professional Quality Skull & Antler Taxidermy
Since 1998
Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: Cuz-Pat] #4254925
12/30/24 06:12 PM
12/30/24 06:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,121
Mobile, AL
P
Pwyse Offline
12 point
Pwyse  Offline
12 point
P
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,121
Mobile, AL
Originally Posted by Cuz-Pat
Originally Posted by Shaw
Originally Posted by 000buck


Not to de rail the post, but what is the best aging source if not teeth?


[Linked Image]


The average hunter could probably afford to get that done but would probably not spend the coin to do it. $75.00 per deer. Not me.


If you send multiple teeth together it is a little cheaper. Our club payed for it out of dues. It’s not too bad.

Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: ParrotHead89] #4254943
12/30/24 06:49 PM
12/30/24 06:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 831
Marshall County
Auburn_03 Offline
6 point
Auburn_03  Offline
6 point
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 831
Marshall County
Originally Posted by ParrotHead89
We had twin girls at school couple years ago that had different dads?? Upstanding young woman of course


Do you have her number? Asking for a friend of course.😀

Re: Question for my friend, Matt Brock... [Re: Cuz-Pat] #4255179
12/31/24 07:19 AM
12/31/24 07:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,071
pensacola,fl. usa
B
billrv Offline
6 point
billrv  Offline
6 point
B
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,071
pensacola,fl. usa
Hey Gents, Thanks for the insightful information, I have always politely disputed our age reports from our land owner and have provided "game cam intel" when it was available. The excuse given is "we might miss a few due to the fact we are aging several hundreds of jaw bones"


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