Home range size varies so much by individual the only way to know is by placing a GPS collar on one.

It’s also the reason I keep saying that bait, cameras and long seasons are NOT going to work long term in some areas. If you have a buck on camera there’s a guarantee that 10 other ppl do too and somebody is out to kill him and they will. It IS impacting age structure in some places to the point that mature bucks are no longer making up any measurable percentage of the population, which is terrible deer management on a population level.

They’re an excuse to shoot one. Not gonna make a difference in a free range situation. What about that doe throwing those cull bucks, how is she identified?
Had a good friend make mention years ago, you turning free range wildlife into livestock. He wasn’t far from wrong

In Missouri they kill around 150,000 bucks a year. In 2023 Alabama killed 140,000.

We have about the same number of estimated deer in each state.

Since they kill more deer in Missouri than in Alabama with a shorter rifle season, and they kill mostly younger deer (if Missouri is the same Midwest rule as in Illinois) it would seem that the season has no affect on it. It seems genes and agriculture is the issue. Am I wrong? Am I missing something? Or maybe the info I got from google in deer numbers is wrong?

Matt , I know this , back when they were saying the ratio was 1 to 10 or 1 to 15 I saw a hell of a lot of big bucks killed. I'm talking bucks that dressed out 160 to 180 a few over that now most think that's big for live weight . Sorry I just fallow the 1 to 1 or the 1 to 2 thing . Now if bucks are so stressed out by having so many does why was the past so great .


Funny back when they started QDM I never heard a thing about stress it was better rut , better rut , more intense rut , shorter rut period.


By no means am I implying the bucks aint stressed . I just dont understand whats the difference from what is to what was .

Pin Bill’s comment for every time this discussion comes up. The secret sauce is very simply a shortened overall season, a 9 to 14 day firearms split outside of peak rut, and a two buck per license limit (one for gun, one for other). Alabama would see an improved age structure and many more mega bucks taken over the shorter season versus the longer one.

Home range size varies so much by individual the only way to know is by placing a GPS collar on one.

It’s also the reason I keep saying that bait, cameras and long seasons are NOT going to work long term in some areas. If you have a buck on camera there’s a guarantee that 10 other ppl do too and somebody is out to kill him and they will. It IS impacting age structure in some places to the point that mature bucks are no longer making up any measurable percentage of the population, which is terrible deer management on a population level.

Man you know how to put words in someone’s mouth. I’ve never said they should not be legal. I use them all the time. Expressing concerns over their use is apparently childish and crybabyish according to some. I’m simply stating what is occurring on the landscape. It’s obvious some ppl don’t have enough maturity to have a conversation OR their greed is more important than the resource. Sorry I’ve stuck a nerve with you. I honestly don’t give a rip. I follow my convictions and science over people’s feelings. I guess I’ll say whatever I want and you can interpret it however you choose.

I have said and will stand by my convictions that the combination of long seasons, land ownership patterns, bait and cell cams will NOT result in a healthy deer herd over time, and I’ll be right in the long run. You can think whatever you want to.

In the meantime, those who have money are going to keep buying more land and putting up more fences. As they do that nobody better say a dang word about it because that’s exactly what’s going to happen. The management decisions this state has made over the last decade are not in the best interest of the resource. Period. It’s about money.

If you're gonna get on a tear again about how cell cams shouldnt be legal, then I expect you to never use the FIRST cell cam to help a client better manage a deer herd.

There aint a bit of difference in what I am doing getting pics of deer that I can decide whether to shoot or not and you using them to assess a herd

If a client who is paying you to help manage their herd shows you a single pic from a cell cam and offers to pay you for your opinion your answer better be "Nah I dont think those cams should be legal so please dont pay me to answer questions about deer you got pics of using a cell cam"

OR

Stop telling everyone they shouldnt be legal

It seems the shorter rifle season is not a valid argument based on the numbers.

Matt , I know this , back when they were saying the ratio was 1 to 10 or 1 to 15 I saw a hell of a lot of big bucks killed. I'm talking bucks that dressed out 160 to 180 a few over that now most think that's big for live weight . Sorry I just fallow the 1 to 1 or the 1 to 2 thing . Now if bucks are so stressed out by having so many does why was the past so great .


Funny back when they started QDM I never heard a thing about stress it was better rut , better rut , more intense rut , shorter rut period.


By no means am I implying the bucks aint stressed . I just dont understand whats the difference from what is to what was .

Matt , I know this , back when they were saying the ratio was 1 to 10 or 1 to 15 I saw a hell of a lot of big bucks killed. I'm talking bucks that dressed out 160 to 180 a few over that now most think that's big for live weight . Sorry I just fallow the 1 to 1 or the 1 to 2 thing . Now if bucks are so stressed out by having so many does why was the past so great .


Funny back when they started QDM I never heard a thing about stress it was better rut , better rut , more intense rut , shorter rut period.


By no means am I implying the bucks aint stressed . I just dont understand whats the difference from what is to what was .

Man you know how to put words in someone’s mouth. I’ve never said they should not be legal. I use them all the time. Expressing concerns over their use is apparently childish and crybabyish according to some. I’m simply stating what is occurring on the landscape. It’s obvious some ppl don’t have enough maturity to have a conversation OR their greed is more important than the resource. Sorry I’ve stuck a nerve with you. I honestly don’t give a rip. I follow my convictions and science over people’s feelings. I guess I’ll say whatever I want and you can interpret it however you choose.

I have said and will stand by my convictions that the combination of long seasons, land ownership patterns, bait and cell cams will NOT result in a healthy deer herd over time, and I’ll be right in the long run. You can think whatever you want to.

In the meantime, those who have money are going to keep buying more land and putting up more fences. As they do that nobody better say a dang word about it because that’s exactly what’s going to happen. The management decisions this state has made over the last decade are not in the best interest of the resource. Period. It’s about money.

You have said in the past cell cams should not be legal, and that is the implication here. Don't call me a childish greedy crybaby, all I did was point out how you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You're a great biologist(I think most would agree the BEST there is) and I really enjoy your posts and pod casts about deer. It is very informative and you've forgotten more about deer herds than most people will ever learn in a lifetime but apparently you can't take a mild challenge to your stance on one particular issue? There's not a professional in any field who doesn't get challenged on their stances on various issues, hell there's second opinions involved with doctors. Damn. Who's the real cry baby?

You have said in the past cell cams should not be legal, and that is the implication here. Don't call me a childish greedy crybaby, all I did was point out how you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You're a great biologist(I think most would agree the BEST there is) and I really enjoy your posts and pod casts about deer. It is very informative and you've forgotten more about deer herds than most people will ever learn in a lifetime but apparently you can't take a mild challenge to your stance on one particular issue? There's not a expert in any field who doesn't get challenged on their stances on various issues, hell there's second opinions involved with doctors. Damn. Who's the real cry baby?