Ok I’m stuck working from home so I thought I would run this question by yall. Hopefully Matt will throw his .02 in as well.

5 year old plus bucks with crappy racks, not pedicle damage, but small skinny horns. What are y’all’s thought on taking them out of the herd? From my understanding there are 2 lines of thinking in these bucks.

1. Kill them because they are eating resources, and they run off younger bucks. Also some people still believe they are passing on bad genes.

2. Let them live and allow them to raise your age structure. They will help you have a better rut and wild genetics are so complex that their offspring could easily be the next 140” buck in the area.

What are y’all’s thoughts? I lean towards #2

If I believe the buck to be 5 year old plus, I am killing it no matter what the rack looks like.

Can you tell us why?

That's what QDMA said was a "trophy"

We are discussing the same thing. Last January, I killed a 4.5 year old eight point that weighed 185 lbs. He had s symmetrical rack but there was no mass and had about a 15 inch spread. Doubt he would ever make more given his age and obvious good health. We have a similar deer on camera this year. Huge body, 4.5 - 5.5 y/o buck but he has small antlers. Don't know if taking him out improves anything but doubt he suddenly makes a jump to a larger set of antlers in the future. Some deer just don't have the genetic make up even if they have good nutrition and are able to achieve some age.

I think you are right. I have no desire to kill a buck with a small rack. I don’t think he will make a jump either. MAYBE add some mass but usually that’s it. I think it’s better for your herd to let him live. This is why I believe trophy clubs should have age AND antler restrictions.

Our requirements are 4+ yrs old and 180+ pounds. Maybe that’s too young but that’s what we settled on

If he’s not big enough to mount I’m not dragging him out of these mtns.

IMO mature is mature, no matter what the rack looks like. Yeah, we all want to kill a big rack mature buck, but there is always satisfaction in killing a mature deer, no matter what the rack looks like. If you are trying to kill mature deer, and you know he is mature, shoot him.

Me too, they ain’t all gonna be 130’s no matter how old they get, a 5 year old is a trophy to me

He would be DOA at my place. Why ? Because I need some backstraps.

So if it’s during the rut and the buck is 4+ and less than 180 ( due to rut) he’s off limits?

I don’t get any satisfaction in killing a mature deer with a rack that is tiny. I would rather kill a doe. But I understand where you are coming from and I’m not saying you are wrong by no means.

Doe backstraps taste much better!

I don't have to worry about what to do with 5 year old deer. Either me or my neighbors kill them before they start cashing their social security checks.

It is always mixed emotions for me. I shot a 5 point last year that we confirmed was at least 4(probably older) as he had been seen in the past and slippinlip even had his sheds from previous years.....Felt good to get a mature one no doubt but i'd be lying if I said it wasnt a touch disappointing to tag one that old and mature that didn't have the corresponding headgear. Hard to say that without demeaning an awesome buck but it's painfully true.

It's like, hey I did all this work to shoot a mature deer (on public land) and it isn't super obvious walking up on him when he is laying there dead and you look at his rack

It’s about objectives.

Having any mature deer 5+ in the population, regardless of antler score, is a great benefit to initiation of estrous cycles, breeding, limiting stress on younger age class bucks, etc. It also creates very fun and rewarding hunting scenarios.

Pwyse, episode 35 has a few minutes of discussion on having mature bucks in the population and why they choose to leave some mature bucks. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5_SlaBdGO5o

If mature bucks are limited in your population then leaving some is a good thing. If they are not then selective harvest may be a good thing. It depends on objectives.

Also, just because a mature buck has lower quality antlers one year doesn’t mean he always will. Having history on individual bucks is important. Stress, injury, drought, etc can cause considerable decrease in a bucks antlers one year, and they’ll often recover in far better condition.

G/H, no he’s not. We understand they drop some weight this time of year. Just try not to shoot a little turd buck

Old deer = trophy. Antlers are irrelevant.