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Re: Breeding data
[Re: burbank]
#4284599
3 hours ago
3 hours ago
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,331
Right behind you
Mbrock
OP
Fancy
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OP
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,331
Right behind you
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So how many properties do you manage that have required killing more bucks than does to correct the balance?
Yes, it’s absolutely about killing does as well as managing habitat. There’s a difference between an educated decision to kill a certain number of does and “blasting the bleep out of does” So what is lost when you kill a doe that needs to be killed? Uh, I don’t know, maybe deer? For every doe you kill, you kill every fawn she will ever have. Some of those fawns are bucks. I guess I’m just saying it’s a fine balance in my mind. And typically, unless you have 1000s of acres or a high fence it will never be close to an exact science. It’s not an exact science, and it’s precisely why I tell most of my clients to get the numbers where we would like to get them in relation to habitat, and at that point we will modify harvest annually. It’s a fluid target. Very few properties can withstand heavy doe harvest indefinitely. BUT, it is a tool. It’s like driving 80 mph on the interstate. That’s fine until you hit a back road. When conditions change you have to adjust your speed.
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Re: Breeding data
[Re: burbank]
#4284604
3 hours ago
3 hours ago
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 1,812
Xroads
Backwards cowboy
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 1,812
Xroads
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So how many properties do you manage that have required killing more bucks than does to correct the balance?
Yes, it’s absolutely about killing does as well as managing habitat. There’s a difference between an educated decision to kill a certain number of does and “blasting the bleep out of does” So what is lost when you kill a doe that needs to be killed? Uh, I don’t know, maybe deer? For every doe you kill, you kill every fawn she will ever have. Some of those fawns are bucks. I guess I’m just saying it’s a fine balance in my mind. And typically, unless you have 1000s of acres or a high fence it will never be close to an exact science. And every fawn she would have had that would be a doe, you kill every deer they would have had. Killing one doe, potentially kills between 16-64 deer off your place over 5 years!
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Re: Breeding data
[Re: Backwards cowboy]
#4284615
3 hours ago
3 hours ago
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 41
Alabama
BraeBuckner
spike
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spike
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 41
Alabama
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So how many properties do you manage that have required killing more bucks than does to correct the balance?
Yes, it’s absolutely about killing does as well as managing habitat. There’s a difference between an educated decision to kill a certain number of does and “blasting the bleep out of does” So what is lost when you kill a doe that needs to be killed? Uh, I don’t know, maybe deer? For every doe you kill, you kill every fawn she will ever have. Some of those fawns are bucks. I guess I’m just saying it’s a fine balance in my mind. And typically, unless you have 1000s of acres or a high fence it will never be close to an exact science. And every fawn she would have had that would be a doe, you kill every deer they would have had. Killing one doe, potentially kills between 16-64 deer off your place over 5 years! With this logic, you’re also killing the even higher numbers of potential offspring of the buck you shoot that would’ve mated with multiple does per season. No matter what you kill, you are preventing that animal from procreating. Nobody is saying wipe out stupid numbers of does on every property, and if they are, they shouldn’t be giving advice to anybody.
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Re: Breeding data
[Re: Goatkiller]
#4284625
3 hours ago
3 hours ago
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 133
Pensacola, FL/Evergreen, AL
rhino21
3 point
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3 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 133
Pensacola, FL/Evergreen, AL
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Before you backtrack...
If you think within a few years that you changed the Rut dates by a week on a specific piece of property.... this would be some groundbreaking stuff that nobody has ever achieved anywhere else that I have ever heard of in the wild.
Appears this is what you are suggesting.
Better let everyone else know you've figured out what to do. There is going to be a LOT of hunters interested in this and you've allegedly got a Biology Degree so they'll likely believe you.
You have to give it to goatkiller, at least he is consistent! Matt, thank you for wading through all the hate to provide valuable information that most of us appreciate.
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Re: Breeding data
[Re: Mbrock]
#4284674
1 hour ago
1 hour ago
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,630
colbert county
cartervj
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,630
colbert county
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Since the question has been asked I’ll bring up the idea that was discussed many years ago in QDMA publications and forum.
Replacement rates per deer
I’ve brought it up in here several times but never goes anywhere. Basic premise is that the amount of time to replace a deer in time. Half year old takes a half year but a 5 year old buck takes approximately 7-8 years because of how many bucks die before reaching that age.
I’m assuming that is no longer a thought or discussion amongst bios.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Breeding data
[Re: abolt300]
#4284685
1 hour ago
1 hour ago
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,630
colbert county
cartervj
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,630
colbert county
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Matt, with a mid January rut, when would a doe need to be harvested to get this information?
Around the beginning of March? Not in south bama. I helped Matt's old boss collect a bunch of fetal data and blood samples in Marengo, Greene, Clarke, Dallas and Wilcox over a 5 yr period, roughly 20 yrs ago. Lot of that went into the Alabama "Rut Map" that we show on here every year. We always started our data collection in those counties around May. I always assumed that the main reason was that with the sex ratios so far out of whack (this was before the free for all doe slaughter), there does being bred on their second and third cycles in some areas, which put them being bred all the way into late Feb and March. We wanted to make sure that if we took them out of the herd, to get the fetal data, that the fetus was bigger than a butterbean. Beginning of March is too early IMO for the south end of the state. We shot all the way into June in some of those years. When I hear fetal studies I also hear this chorus Ooh that smell Can't you smell that smell Ooh that smell The smell of death surrounds you
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Breeding data
[Re: cartervj]
#4284717
24 minutes ago
24 minutes ago
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 14,226
Hoover
burbank
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 14,226
Hoover
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Since the question has been asked I’ll bring up the idea that was discussed many years ago in QDMA publications and forum.
Replacement rates per deer
I’ve brought it up in here several times but never goes anywhere. Basic premise is that the amount of time to replace a deer in time. Half year old takes a half year but a 5 year old buck takes approximately 7-8 years because of how many bucks die before reaching that age.
I’m assuming that is no longer a thought or discussion amongst bios.
Fair question.
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