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Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: Pwyse] #4294303
Yesterday at 10:26 AM
Yesterday at 10:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,435
Right behind you
Mbrock Offline
Fancy
Mbrock  Offline
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,435
Right behind you
I’ve seen a lot of ppl with money and land make a lot of mistakes without professional guidance. I’m not using a plumber with lots of money to fix my electrical issues, just like you wouldn’t use a dental hygienist with lots of money to perform heart surgery. Habitat management and deer herd management takes more than money.

Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: Mbrock] #4294307
Yesterday at 10:48 AM
Yesterday at 10:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,753
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,753
Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted by Mbrock
I’ve seen a lot of ppl with money and land make a lot of mistakes without professional guidance. I’m not using a plumber with lots of money to fix my electrical issues, just like you wouldn’t use a dental hygienist with lots of money to perform heart surgery. Habitat management and deer herd management takes more than money.


I think most folks would be surprised……I know my perception of things has changed a lot since I started tracking….You ride by them and you think that because a place has a nice fence and a fancy gate or its own personal caretaker, etc….. that they must have it all figured out…..Its often times not the case though……Its usually someone who made a bunch of money in some other industry and is throwing money at their recreational hunting property without really understanding for real-for real what they’re doing and why……

Last edited by CNC; Yesterday at 10:51 AM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: Pwyse] #4294309
Yesterday at 10:50 AM
Yesterday at 10:50 AM
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Posts: 9,435
Right behind you
Mbrock Offline
Fancy
Mbrock  Offline
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Posts: 9,435
Right behind you
Precisely.

Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: Pwyse] #4294320
Yesterday at 11:06 AM
Yesterday at 11:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,131
Jasper
B
buckhunter2 Offline
10 point
buckhunter2  Offline
10 point
B
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,131
Jasper
I only know 4 things for certain about Buxton-

1- He manages some high fence properties and uses some high fence pics to promote his business on facebook
2- He will block you from his facebook page if you simply ask free range or high fence
3- He’s an accomplished trapper of the trash pandas
4- His people skills are questionable at best


You're only as good as your worst shot-
Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: Pwyse] #4294332
Yesterday at 11:20 AM
Yesterday at 11:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,753
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,753
Awbarn, AL
I’m amazed at how far behind folks still are on food plot management…..I go to a lot of properties and see a lot of food plots and I couldn’t tell you of a single one off the top of my head where someone is no-tilling and building up nice soil….. I figured that would be a lot farther along by now…..Maybe in another decade….Most places are still just plowing the chit out of piss poor dirt and throwing the 13-13-13 to it…..getting less than mediocre results……A lot of folks are wasting a lot more $$$ each year than the cost of a seminar ticket….Just sayin


We dont rent pigs
Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: Pwyse] #4294345
Yesterday at 11:47 AM
Yesterday at 11:47 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,646
Gadsden
D
desertdog Offline
8 point
desertdog  Offline
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D
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,646
Gadsden
How can one bit of Usefulness translate from a High Fence Property to the average free range landowner?

Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: desertdog] #4294350
Yesterday at 12:04 PM
Yesterday at 12:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,435
Right behind you
Mbrock Offline
Fancy
Mbrock  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2016
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Originally Posted by desertdog
How can one bit of Usefulness translate from a High Fence Property to the average free range landowner?

Habitat improvements can, but very little on deer herd management applies, UNLESS you have control of large acreages. Very large. We definitely manage herd dynamics different on fenced properties vs free range. People think you can fence a place and continue to manage like you have been. Can’t do it. Deer harvest is taken to a whole new level once a fence goes up.

Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: Pwyse] #4294367
Yesterday at 12:47 PM
Yesterday at 12:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,489
Central Al
twaldrop4 Online content
10 point
twaldrop4  Online Content
10 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,489
Central Al
If you got money somebody with knowledge is always willing to help. If you ain’t got money you can have all the knowledge in the world

Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: Mbrock] #4294370
Yesterday at 12:49 PM
Yesterday at 12:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,635
Mobile, AL
P
Pwyse Offline OP
14 point
Pwyse  Offline OP
14 point
P
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,635
Mobile, AL
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by desertdog
How can one bit of Usefulness translate from a High Fence Property to the average free range landowner?

Habitat improvements can, but very little on deer herd management applies, UNLESS you have control of large acreages. Very large. We definitely manage herd dynamics different on fenced properties vs free range. People think you can fence a place and continue to manage like you have been. Can’t do it. Deer harvest is taken to a whole new level once a fence goes up.


I think if you have a large acreage hi fence with native deer ( which he admits in his seminar some of his properties are) the list would be shorter of what didn’t translate instead of what did.

Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: Pwyse] #4294391
Yesterday at 01:40 PM
Yesterday at 01:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,866
Fairhope, AL
2
270wsm Offline
14 point
270wsm  Offline
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2
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,866
Fairhope, AL
I attended last year and enjoyed it. I took lots of notes and have referred to them several times over the last year.

Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: CNC] #4294410
Yesterday at 02:42 PM
Yesterday at 02:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,923
Coosa County, AL
Coosa1 Offline
SOA Professional
Coosa1  Offline
SOA Professional
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,923
Coosa County, AL
Originally Posted by CNC
I’m amazed at how far behind folks still are on food plot management…..I go to a lot of properties and see a lot of food plots and I couldn’t tell you of a single one off the top of my head where someone is no-tilling and building up nice soil….. I figured that would be a lot farther along by now…..Maybe in another decade….Most places are still just plowing the chit out of piss poor dirt and throwing the 13-13-13 to it…..getting less than mediocre results……A lot of folks are wasting a lot more $$$ each year than the cost of a seminar ticket….Just sayin



We've been doing no till for about 10 years now. Went from having your standard coosa county clay in our food plots to a layer of topsoil so rich and thick that I almost got the tractor stuck in it on a dry day when the drag go hung on a T post.

Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: Pwyse] #4294414
Yesterday at 02:47 PM
Yesterday at 02:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,785
A
abolt300 Offline
Booner
abolt300  Offline
Booner
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,785
Originally Posted by Pwyse
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by desertdog
How can one bit of Usefulness translate from a High Fence Property to the average free range landowner?

Habitat improvements can, but very little on deer herd management applies, UNLESS you have control of large acreages. Very large. We definitely manage herd dynamics different on fenced properties vs free range. People think you can fence a place and continue to manage like you have been. Can’t do it. Deer harvest is taken to a whole new level once a fence goes up.


I think if you have a large acreage hi fence with native deer ( which he admits in his seminar some of his properties are) the list would be shorter of what didn’t translate instead of what did.


Nope. It'll still change a bunch. Most high fence properties trap the crap out of predators, get rid of hogs, feed heavily. Fawn survival is exponentially higher and supplemental feeding and habitat management greatly increases the ability to maintain higher deer densities. Question is, which density and ratio are correct for your property and what you want to accomplish and how do you establish and maintain it. Herd is now confined within a finite area with virtually all natural mortality from outside factors being greatly reduced, other than rut mortality. Most of the deer mortality within a fence comes from man and those decisions that man makes become exponentially more important because that high fence prohibits your getting or not getting native replenishment of your herd and genetics from outside sources. How many does should be shot, exactly which bucks can/should be taken and which bucks should be protected at all cost? How many bucks and does do you want to carry within the fence at any given time? Too few bucks, you increase rut stress. To many bucks and you also increase rut stress and rut mortality and start having bucks killing each other and busting up racks, damaging pedicles, etc. They cannot just relocate to another adjoining property to avoid confrontation. Example: You've had your high fence for 5 years and you've got a 165" 4 yr old 10 point that is your best up and comer. You're carrying more bucks than you should and that superstar 10 gets in a fight with a 7 yr old 6 point that breaks his main beam off below the skull plate and that buck either dies from a brain abscess or survives and most likely has a damaged pedicle and never scores high on that side again. Every decision within a fence, comes with consequences, because mother nature is not there to bail you out when you make a bad one.

People can really screw up a high fence in a very short period of time if you dont have someone like Matt (and a few others that are very good at it) to assist in establishing and managing your nutrition, layout, herd dynamics and harvest strategies. It's not a hard topic to learn, but nobody is going to learn it in one session or one or two seasons. I'm sure Buxton has a ton of hands on experience but I'm not so sure that he has any formal training and I'm almost certain that he does not have any formal education in the form a wildlife biology degree, let alone the advanced wildlife degrees that most of the really good wildlife biologists possess, in addition to all of their in the field experience.

Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: abolt300] #4294419
Yesterday at 03:11 PM
Yesterday at 03:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,635
Mobile, AL
P
Pwyse Offline OP
14 point
Pwyse  Offline OP
14 point
P
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,635
Mobile, AL
Originally Posted by abolt300
Originally Posted by Pwyse
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by desertdog
How can one bit of Usefulness translate from a High Fence Property to the average free range landowner?

Habitat improvements can, but very little on deer herd management applies, UNLESS you have control of large acreages. Very large. We definitely manage herd dynamics different on fenced properties vs free range. People think you can fence a place and continue to manage like you have been. Can’t do it. Deer harvest is taken to a whole new level once a fence goes up.


I think if you have a large acreage hi fence with native deer ( which he admits in his seminar some of his properties are) the list would be shorter of what didn’t translate instead of what did.


Nope. It'll still change a bunch. Most high fence properties trap the crap out of predators, get rid of hogs, feed heavily. Fawn survival is exponentially higher and supplemental feeding and habitat management greatly increases the ability to maintain higher deer densities. Question is, which density and ratio are correct for your property and what you want to accomplish and how do you establish and maintain it. Herd is now confined within a finite area with virtually all natural mortality from outside factors being greatly reduced, other than rut mortality. Most of the deer mortality within a fence comes from man and those decisions that man makes become exponentially more important because that high fence prohibits your getting or not getting native replenishment of your herd and genetics from outside sources. How many does should be shot, exactly which bucks can/should be taken and which bucks should be protected at all cost? How many bucks and does do you want to carry within the fence at any given time? Too few bucks, you increase rut stress. To many bucks and you also increase rut stress and rut mortality and start having bucks killing each other and busting up racks, damaging pedicles, etc. They cannot just relocate to another adjoining property to avoid confrontation. Example: You've had your high fence for 5 years and you've got a 165" 4 yr old 10 point that is your best up and comer. You're carrying more bucks than you should and that superstar 10 gets in a fight with a 7 yr old 6 point that breaks his main beam off below the skull plate and that buck either dies from a brain abscess or survives and most likely has a damaged pedicle and never scores high on that side again. Every decision within a fence, comes with consequences, because mother nature is not there to bail you out when you make a bad one.

People can really screw up a high fence in a very short period of time if you dont have someone like Matt (and a few others that are very good at it) to assist in establishing and managing your nutrition, layout, herd dynamics and harvest strategies. It's not a hard topic to learn, but nobody is going to learn it in one session or one or two seasons. I'm sure Buxton has a ton of hands on experience but I'm not so sure that he has any formal training and I'm almost certain that he does not have any formal education in the form a wildlife biology degree, let alone the advanced wildlife degrees that most of the really good wildlife biologists possess, in addition to all of their in the field experience.



That’s what I’m saying. Everything that translates in managing a 5k acre property with no fence would apply to a 5k hi fence as well. The list of things that are not the same would be a shorter list.

Deer densities and sex ratios are site specific on a property with no fence as well as within a fence.

Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: Coosa1] #4294430
Yesterday at 03:49 PM
Yesterday at 03:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,753
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,753
Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted by Coosa1
Originally Posted by CNC
I’m amazed at how far behind folks still are on food plot management…..I go to a lot of properties and see a lot of food plots and I couldn’t tell you of a single one off the top of my head where someone is no-tilling and building up nice soil….. I figured that would be a lot farther along by now…..Maybe in another decade….Most places are still just plowing the chit out of piss poor dirt and throwing the 13-13-13 to it…..getting less than mediocre results……A lot of folks are wasting a lot more $$$ each year than the cost of a seminar ticket….Just sayin



We've been doing no till for about 10 years now. Went from having your standard coosa county clay in our food plots to a layer of topsoil so rich and thick that I almost got the tractor stuck in it on a dry day when the drag go hung on a T post.


thumbup


We dont rent pigs
Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: Pwyse] #4294477
Yesterday at 06:41 PM
Yesterday at 06:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 5,404
Michigan
S
Sasquatch Lives Offline
12 point
Sasquatch Lives  Offline
12 point
S
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 5,404
Michigan
Originally Posted by Pwyse
Sasquatch can you talk about the alfalfa? Sandy soil or clay? What type did you plant? Mow it every 30 days or so?

It is farmland not sure what type soil but pretty good if it is used for crops. Plain old alfalfa seed from the elevator, nothing special. Mow it twice a year. Fertilize every other year in the spring, that's it.

Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: Sasquatch Lives] #4294479
Yesterday at 06:46 PM
Yesterday at 06:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,635
Mobile, AL
P
Pwyse Offline OP
14 point
Pwyse  Offline OP
14 point
P
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,635
Mobile, AL
Originally Posted by Sasquatch Lives
Originally Posted by Pwyse
Sasquatch can you talk about the alfalfa? Sandy soil or clay? What type did you plant? Mow it every 30 days or so?

It is farmland not sure what type soil but pretty good if it is used for crops. Plain old alfalfa seed from the elevator, nothing special. Mow it twice a year. Fertilize every other year in the spring, that's it.


In Alabama or Michigan?

Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: Pwyse] #4294489
Yesterday at 07:11 PM
Yesterday at 07:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 5,404
Michigan
S
Sasquatch Lives Offline
12 point
Sasquatch Lives  Offline
12 point
S
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 5,404
Michigan
Originally Posted by Pwyse
Originally Posted by Sasquatch Lives
Originally Posted by Pwyse
Sasquatch can you talk about the alfalfa? Sandy soil or clay? What type did you plant? Mow it every 30 days or so?

It is farmland not sure what type soil but pretty good if it is used for crops. Plain old alfalfa seed from the elevator, nothing special. Mow it twice a year. Fertilize every other year in the spring, that's it.


In Alabama or Michigan?

Michigan. Deer will paw through a foot of snow to get at it in late winter.

Re: Buxton Seminar [Re: twaldrop4] #4294502
Yesterday at 07:30 PM
Yesterday at 07:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,903
Huntsville, Al
Bronco 74 Offline
10 point
Bronco 74  Offline
10 point
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,903
Huntsville, Al
Originally Posted by twaldrop4
All you need to manage deer and property is time and money. Dont need a seminar for that.

There ya go.


"We have an opponent in this state that we work every day, 365 days a year, to dominate."
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