seems like for every gram per cc you gain the performance of the shell increases dramatically.
I think hevi-13's and the hevishot Nitro's are around 12g/cc
Nitro Megaweights are a little over 13g/cc
Federal Heavyweight is 15g/cc.....It is awesome for a factory shell if you can get your gun to shoot it
TSS is all the way up there at 18g/cc. The way Hal explained it to me is that a #9 TSS pellet has the same lethal energy as a #4 lead pellet or a #5 hevishot.
What really blew my mind is when he told me that a 7/8 oz dove load of #9 TSS would have about the same firepower as the 2 1/4 oz 3 1/2" Hevi 13 5's that I used to shoot.

I bet that would be a nasty duck load? How much is it costing y'all to load per shell

Too much for ducks. I tried to run some numbers a while back but it wasn't gonna work. Only thing you might could do would be something like adding a quarter ounce of 9's in a steel duplex load or something like that. That would still be something like 86 cents a shell just for the TSS content though.
You would just about have to stick with hevishot if you were gonna load up something for ducks

The longest document kill I know of was a guy who shot a bird at about 35 yds, and then noticed way back in the field there was an awful lot of movement. He quickly saw that it was another tom flopping that he didn't know was back there. He ranged it at 110 yds. He was using #6s, which is way too big for turkeys. I believe it wouldn't be hard to put together a bonafide 100 yard load combo if one set out to do it, probably with #7-1/2s or maybe #7s... I know of turkeys killed at 90, 80, 75, etc. Most were with #9 shot, and guys just flat badly miscalculated the distance, which is easy to do once you get out to what you think is 55 or 60 yds. The farthest I know of with the 20 gauge is 79 lasered yards. The 90 yard birds were with a 2-3/4" 1-5/8 oz of TSS 9x7s -- none hit the turkeys in the head and neck -- all went in through the back.

Coyotes killed with #9s at up to 50 yds are also reported. I shot one at 42 yds with a 2 oz load of 9x8s once. She was quartering away and I aimed at her rib cage. She twirled around 3 times nipping at her side, and then fell over and died right there. There was no visible evidence of entry or exit holes, but she was bleeding from her nostrils and rectum.

But I don't recommend setting out to take long shots with it because it's so easy to misjudge distance the farther out you go. It does give you plenty of error cushion, and allows you to tote smaller bored guns while actually increasing your combo's lethality.

It has changed the way I set up on a turkey somewhat, if I'm using the 12 or 20 gauge. I always like to set up so that the turkey is in range when I see him, and he me. But now I don't have to be so careful about how I set up -- just a quick glance around and I know I'm good. Even with the 28 gauge, I now have a 55-60 yd turkey gun. And with the .410 a bonafide 40 yd gun.

Hal, what kind of pattern spread do the 9's give at 70, 80, 90 yds? Anyone ever patterned one on a board at those ranges? Are all the shot accounted for on the board or is it so wide you could 3 turkeys if they were all standing beside each other?

Not having fooled around with TSS I am just curious how a pattern holds together at thos distances.

I've fired one shot at 65 and one shot at 75 just to see what it would do. At 65, it seems like it had about 120 hits in the 10" circle. I know it was better than factory #4 would do at 40. At 75, the number had dropped to 75 hits. Although its a good idea to have 100 in the pattern you call your max range, I am confident that 75 of these pellets will kill him every time. I would consider that the max range.

And of course I was just measuring the center of the pattern. It would most definitely kill all 3 turkeys if they were standing there together.

Hal has tested way more than I have; he might be able to give a more detailed answer.

I've never known anyone to pattern any at 90 yds. But I have gone out to 80.

Here are routine patterns out of my Moss 500 with 2 oz 9x8s:

40 yds


50 yds


60 yds


70 yds


80 yds


Here are a couple 20 ga patterns, 1-7/16 oz of 9s. You can see why 60 yds, even with the 20 gauge, is a chip shot:

40 yds


50 yds


60 yds


But it's harder to put the core of your pattern on a bird at long distances than most people figure, IMO. Can you can put it where you want it -- that's the main question out to 70+ yds.

The rule of thumb with TSS is, if you take your average 40 yd 10" count, you can figure your count in 10 yard increments farther, simply by multiplying by .7.

So, say my 40 yd count is 283, then 283 x .7 = 198 to get my 50 yd count. Then multiply 198 x .7 to get your 60 yd count = 139, etc.

You can see it works out pretty close with my acutal patterns above.

Great info! I've never seen your ".7" rule before. I think I'm getting closer to .75 with my straight 8 load in the 3.5" shell. However, I haven't tested enough at long range to really prove that and it may well be closer to .7.

That's a good point Steve. 8s tend to pattern a little tighter than 9s, and 7s than 8s, etc.

With that kind of performance, you guys have me sold on the load. I've never handloaded in the past... but if I can get this kind of results, I'm willing to learn. What does a guy like me need to do to get started? Thanks.

It's about $100 investment for the equipment needed, to roll crimp the shells:

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/BPI-BallistiScale-1500-Digital-Scale/productinfo/6880300/

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Hull-Vise-select-size-in-Options/productinfo/VISE/

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Original-Roll-Crimping-Tool-12ga/productinfo/ROLL12/

The shot can be bought at Tungsten Spheres, or usually it's cheaper to get it from me if I have some on hand. Plus I give load data/instructions to whoever gets shot from me. Then you've got to get the components for the shell(s) you want to load up.

And I think it's actually a lot of fun to roll your own. You get to enjoy the shell twice when you shoot what you loaded up yourself.

Nice patterns Hal. Looks like dirt naps all around.

If you have a drill press, you can get by without the hull vice. Then the only tools to buy are scales and the crimping tool. I have an el cheapo drill press that I bought about 20 years ago and it works just fine. Took me 3 or 4 shells to learn to do it perfectly, but even my first attempt shot just fine.

For those that say they don't have time - it takes maybe 2 hours to load up all the shells you will need for a turkey season. And you will have shells that are vastly superior to anything you can buy.

Not mentioning any names, but only somebody who was firmly under the thumb of his wife wouldn't have 2 hours available to get ready for turkey season.

edit: Also, Hal is not trying to make a profit and doesn't promote his shot and loads, so I will do it for him. If you wanta get in the tss loading business, get your shot and load data from him. There is nobody else alive that knows as much about tss turkey loads as Hal does.

I am shooting TSS in some 2 oz and 1 3/4 oz 12ga. loads that were given to me by a friend and all I can say is that there is NOTHING on the market even close to the killing power of TSS. I will be a shot shell handloader before turkey season starts.

Thanks guys!

PCP: Dang turkeys were squawking something awful the other morning where y'all were squirrel hunting that afternoon. Somebody's got to rid the landscape of those feathered beast.

I agree Steve, I dont put alot of time into it at all. I take what Hal tells me. Buy the components,sit down and load them, and make sure they are sighted in.

I dont play around with chokes much because the patterns are better than anything else out there and I honest believe that alot of people are getting the to tight. Like I said before.

I believe they will kill a turkey every time at 60. Seems like a little further and they start dropping and thats not easy to account for.

I hope we didn't mess up your deer hunt that afternoon. It was too hot for me to go deer hunting that day, so carried the dogs out. Wish I had know you were down, woulda tried to talk you unto going with us.

It's way too hot to deer hunt today, but I'm out here wasting time anyway. Wish I had the dogs with me.

what web site do yall use to get your tss supply

I've had a hard time believing a #9 shot made out of anything has enough energy to kill a bird at 70 yards and I worry about that stuff tearing up my barrel but yall have just about got me wanting to try this stuff out.
What kind of wads and hulls yall using?