You make some good points ford15Oman.

Some interesting teaching (lesson 8b) on baptism for anybody that might be interested...lessons 1b & 2b help lay the foundation to better understand where he's coming from concerning baptism:

http://www.lesfeldick.org/lesqa-b.html#8b

You are not arguing with me you are arguing with the bible. I don't care who is given their version of the plan of salvation if they don't have book chapter and verse I'm not listening.Problem is most people just find someone who tells them what they want to hear and never search the scriptures to see if it's so. The church is the body of Christ and we are added to it by God Acts 2:28 and following. Of course you don;t have to be inside of a buildind with a cross on it to be saved. You will however need enough water to be baptized for the remission of your sins.We are also told that we must confess his name before others.

Brother, every instance that you referenced in the Bible is either 1. speaking of Baptism by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ (not water baptism) or 2. is referring to a Jew under the Gospel of the Kingdom prior to the ushering in of the Gospel of Grace (i.e. us gentiles). In my humble opinion, you have to look at the totality of the Scripture including the timeline at which the teaching was taking place, who God was dealing with, and who was being taught/spoken to. Like many, I struggled with this issue for years because I believed in my heart that God is Truth yet years of study of His Word left me scratching my head concerning the issue of baptism, but I'm rather comfortable now in my belief that baptism is not a requirement for salvation for a gentile in this age of grace.

If you cant stand the heat......youd better be right!
I didnt write the bible. I just read it.most people that think baptism isnt required are just following what they were taught not what the bible says. I guess Noah would have been ok if he thought the ark was too big and changed the design.

Actually its acts 2:38
X2000

Acts 8 28-38 Phillip preached the Gospel to the Ethiopian Eunuch and like all Accounts of salvation water baptism to place. The apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit.You mention Les explanation of baptism. The works he talks of are the same ones the apostles were preaching against THE JEWISH WORKS OF SALVATION.Yes it makes it alot easier to leave water out of salvation and most take that position. From the warnings I get in the New Testament I want to be with the few instead.Please understand that anything I post about the bible is in love and respect for the truth. Ephesians 4 4-6 there is only one Baptism

Well stated Chad I agree 100%

and we wonder why our churches are empty these days.....

Healthy debate is okay, even good. The problem lies that most of us view our, or our denominations, beliefs as the be all and end all. I have strong convictions, but they are based off my interpretation of the Bible. "Your" opinions may vary. I'm sure that won't sit well with some, but I'm only trying to please God. No one else.

I think the reason many churches are empty has much to do with the state of the world we live in. Reading Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 1 verses 18-32 it seems that Paul is writing to present day America. "WE" need to become the missionaries that God calls all of us to be in our own neighborhoods.

As much as I love my church and my church family I feel just as close to the lord when I'm in the deer woods watching all of his glory and creation's at sun rise.

The book of Acts is a transitional book that give the account of God shifting gears from the Gospel of the Kingdom to the Gospel of Grace and it has to be read as such. Phillip was simply doing what all that he knew at that moment. God had not yet revealed to Paul, the priest of the Gospel of Grace and the one that God would use to teach the apostles accordingly, about the age of Grace. Repent and be baptized was the Gospel of the Kingdom, intended for the Jews and ushered in by John the Baptist. The Jews rejected their Messiah and nailed him to the cross and God shifted gears to the Gospel of Grace, intended for Jew and Gentile alike in this current age, which says to believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Same Messiah, 2 different dispensations/ages.

For one example, Acts 10:44-47 sure seems to show otherwise.

Exactly...the baptism of the Holy Spirit which all believers in this age, jew and gentile alike, share. Same teaching as I Corinthians 12:13.

Same here brother....I'm not mad at anybody...just discussing the Word which is always fruitful! My fear concerning the belief that water baptism is required for salvation is no different than the fear I have concerning somebody saying some magic prayer when they were 6. People lean on an individual act of man for salvation when salvation always has been and always will be about faith....true, life changing, new creation, life set on a new path kind of faith. The Bible is clear from cover to cover that it's all about faith. In addition to the Word of God, I lean upon understanding gleaned from my own salvation experience. The moment I placed my faith in Him is the moment God planted the Holy Spirit in me and began to radically change my life....not 4 weeks later when I was baptized.

I love discussing things like this. It spurs me on.

Hey guys , I'm not arguing with anyone. I'm definitely not arguing with the bible. I also have probably two pages of scripture to support my beliefs. I just feel a forum such as Aldeer doesn't give adequate space or time to accurately and intelligently discuss the subject. I can assure you I research the word for myself and while I don't take what others say as gold I do have trusted people that I confide in. So much more I could say here but I just feel these type of discussions are given the attention they deserve in this type setting. I love all of you as brothers in Christ and am just thankful that you feel so passionate for our Lord and Savior.

I love these threads, we have an awesome, loving God and respectfully discussing His word just fires me up and make me happy! Some good scripture reading on this thread.

Fur, nothing more to the story. Just wondering what everyone's thoughts on the subject were. As I stated, I never went through a formal ceremony and every now and then I'll get into a conversation with someone who thinks that doesn't count.

On the other hand, I've seen kids dunked way before they were old enough to really know what it meant.

Well said...

The reason churchs are empty today is apathy. Most people never sit down and think about where they came from or where they are going. Same reason we got alot of the problems we got these days.

Amen to that!