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Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them #506599
01/18/13 12:11 PM
01/18/13 12:11 PM
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bamachem Offline OP
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I don't condone shooting a hunting dog over simple unintentional trespass.

I am hoping for discussion on the laws that I found in regards to dogs at large and the legality of when you can and can't shoot a dog.


Even though this post might look like a 49er-ism, here goes!

There's already a law on the books to keep dogs off a Wildlife Management Area. If a dog is found on a WMA, then the owner can be found guilty of a misdemeanor!

LINK TO THE CODE OF ALABAMA 1975 in case you want to see for yourself.

Quote:
§ 9-11-305. When dogs permitted in areas; liability of owners of dogs at large in areas.

No dog shall be permitted except on leash within any wildlife management area except in accordance with the rules and regulations promulgated by the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources, and whoever shall be the owner of any dog at large within any wildlife management area shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.



There's also a law on the books that says a person may not let their dog run at large off of their own premisis unless the dog is accompanying the owner!

Quote:
§ 3-1-5. Permitting dogs to run at large; applicability of provisions of section in counties and certain cities or towns.

(a) Every person owning or having in charge any dog or dogs shall at all times confine such dog or dogs to the limits of his own premises or the premises on which such dog or dogs is or are regularly kept. Nothing in this section shall prevent the owner of any dog or dogs or other person or persons having such dog or dogs in his or their charge from allowing such dog or dogs to accompany such owner or other person or persons elsewhere than on the premises on which such dog or dogs is or are regularly kept. Any person violating this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be fined not less than $2.00 nor more than $50.00.

(b) This section shall not apply to the running at large of any dog or dogs within the corporate limits of any city or town in this state that requires a license tag to be kept on dogs nor shall this section apply in any county in this state until the same has been adopted by the county commission of such county.


In other words, if a DOG trespasses onto private property without his owner, then the DOG OWNER can be charged with a misdemeanor! Yes, it is an enforcable law already on the books!

Looks like every time a person catches a deer dog on their property, they need to call the sheriff and the owner. Have a nice little meeting with both, and nicely discuss Alabama § 3-1-5 in relation to hunting dogs. If they dogs are caught on the property a second time, press charges!

I am posting this not because I want people to shoot another man's dog. I want still hunters to know that they have an alternative, under the law, to shooting the dogs. They may call the law and swear out a warrant for the arrest of the dog owner. The officer cannot refuse to allow the person to swear out the warrant. Typically, the plaintiff will have to go to the courthouse or police department to do so, and will have to provide evidence to support his claim. That evidence can also be that an officer witnessed the dogs on his property without his permission and that the dogs were adorned with a collar with the defendants name clearly legible on them. No, the fine isn't much, but you can bet that any Judge will NOT want to see any repeat offender in his court. You can count on that.

As far a shooting dogs who are trespassing...

Quote:
§ 3-1-14. Unlawful or malicious killing, injury, etc., of dog of another. Repealed by Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, § 9901, as amended, effective January 1, 1980.


and...

Quote:
TITLE 13A. CRIMINAL CODE. CHAPTER 11. OFFENSES AGAINST ORDER AND SAFETY.

§ 13A-11-14. Cruelty to Animals.
(a) A person commits the crime of cruelty to animals if, except as otherwise authorized by law, he or she intentionally or recklessly:

(1) Subjects any animal to cruel mistreatment; or

(2) Subjects any animal in his or her custody to cruel neglect; or

(3) Kills or injures without good cause any animal belonging to another.

(b) Cruelty to animals is a Class B misdemeanor and on the first conviction of a violation of this section shall be punished by a fine of not more than three thousand dollars ($3,000) or imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six months, or both fine and imprisonment; on a second conviction of a violation of this section, shall be punished by a fine of not less than five hundred dollars ($500) nor more than three thousand dollars ($3,000) or imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six months, or both fine and imprisonment; and on a third or subsequent conviction of a violation of this section, shall be punished by a fine of not less than one thousand dollars ($1,000) nor more than three thousand dollars ($3,000) or imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six months, or both fine and imprisonment.

.........

§ 13A-11-14 COMMENTARY

This section is reproduced from Model Penal Code § 250.11. It is not concerned with the criminality per se of injuring or killing an animal, but is aimed at unlawful cruelty to animals.

Alabama statutes dealing with this type of conduct are: §§ 3-1-10 and 3-1-11 (wanton or malicious injury to animal of another); former § 3-1-12 (cruelty to animals); former § 3-1-14 (unlawful or malicious killing of dogs); and § 3-1-16 (employment of county officer to enforce laws as to cruelty to animals and children; duties, oaths, etc.).

The Criminal Code preserves the purpose of the law to prevent cruel treatment or a cruel killing or injury of any animal.

The qualifying phrase “without good cause” is inserted to cover situations that merit such action but are not otherwise authorized by law, e.g., marauding dogs.

Article 11. Cruelty to Dog or Cat.

.........

§ 13A-11-240. Definitions.

(a) The word "torture" as used in this article shall mean the act of doing physical injury to a dog or cat by the infliction of inhumane treatment or gross physical abuse meant to cause said animal intensive or prolonged pain or serious physical injury, or thereby causing death due to said act.

(b) The word "cruel" as used in this article shall mean: Every act, omission, or neglect, including abandonment, where unnecessary or unjustifiable pain or suffering, including abandonment, is caused or where unnecessary pain or suffering is allowed to continue.

(c) The words "dog or cat" as used in this article shall mean any domesticated member of the dog or cat family.

........

§ 13A-11-241. Cruelty in first and second degrees.

(a) A person commits the crime of cruelty to a dog or cat in the first degree if he or she intentionally tortures any dog or cat or skins a domestic dog or cat or offers for sale or exchange or offers to buy or exchange the fur, hide, or pelt of a domestic dog or cat. Cruelty to a dog or cat in the first degree is a Class C felony. A conviction for a felony pursuant to this section shall not be considered a felony for purposes of the Habitual Felony Offender Act, Section 13A-5-9 to 13A-5-10.1, inclusive.

(b) A person commits the crime of cruelty to a dog or cat in the second degree if he or she, in a cruel manner, overloads, overdrives, deprives of necessary sustenance or shelter, unnecessarily or cruelly beats, injuries, mutilates, or causes the same to be done. Cruelty to a dog or cat in the second degree is a Class A misdemeanor.

......

§ 13A-11-246. Applicability.

This article shall not apply to any of the following persons or institutions:

(1) Academic and research enterprises that use dogs or cats for medical or pharmaceutical research or testing.

(2) Any owner of a dog or cat who euthanizes the dog or cat for humane purposes.

(3) Any person who kills a dog or cat found outside of the owned or rented property of the owner or custodian of the dog or cat when the dog or cat threatens immediate physical injury or is causing physical injury to any person, animal, bird, or silvicultural or agricultural industry.

(4) A person who shoots a dog or cat with a BB gun not capable of inflicting serious injury when the dog or cat is defecating or urinating on the person's property.

(5) A person who uses a training device, anti-bark collar, or an invisible fence on his or her own dog or cat or with permission of the owner.




So, Cruelty to Animal statutes do not apply to "marauding dogs" or to dogs who are outside the property of the owner and are threatening physical injury to any person, animal, or bird.

Since dogs are chasing deer, one can impose that should said dogs actually catch a deer, especially a fawn, they would impose physical injury to said deer or fawn. Therefore, any rational and logical person can deduce that the dogs which are chasing deer are, in fact, threatening physical injury to the deer. In that case, it is completely LEGAL to shoot said dogs when they are NOT on the owner's premisis.


Last edited by bamachem; 01/18/13 03:48 PM.

MOLON LABE
Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: bamachem] #506601
01/18/13 12:21 PM
01/18/13 12:21 PM
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Hogwild Offline
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So, in your infinite Wisdom, you now think you have made ALL f of dog hunting, including retrievers, illegal?

Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: bamachem] #506602
01/18/13 12:22 PM
01/18/13 12:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline
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9er is that you? wink

Good info!

Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: Hogwild] #506603
01/18/13 12:25 PM
01/18/13 12:25 PM
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bamachem Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Hogwild
So, in your infinite Wisdom, you now think you have made ALL f of dog hunting, including retrievers, illegal?


Nope, but the AL legislature says that if your dog trespasses its illegal and you, the owner, can be charged!

Using dogs ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY OR PREMISE is perfectly legal. When the dog crosses the property line, it is illegal.

Can you not simply read and understand the law, Danny?


MOLON LABE
Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: bamachem] #506604
01/18/13 12:25 PM
01/18/13 12:25 PM
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striker6126 Offline
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Good info . thanks for posting

Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: bamachem] #506605
01/18/13 12:25 PM
01/18/13 12:25 PM
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Posts: 13,443
In a Van, down by the River
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In a Van, down by the River
I'm getting a Hunting Cat... whistle


Life is a journey. Make sure and bring plenty of Beer.

My luck has been so bad lately, it could be raining pussies and I'd catch one with a dick broke off in it.
Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: bamachem] #506608
01/18/13 12:36 PM
01/18/13 12:36 PM
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Elmore County
Frankie Offline
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nope ,, the its not the same .

if the hunter is out hunting then the dog is with the owner = ok

if the owner is home and the dog is out hunting = then not ok

Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: Frankie] #506612
01/18/13 12:41 PM
01/18/13 12:41 PM
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Guntersville, AL
IDOT Offline
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IDOT  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Frankie

if the hunter is out hunting then the dog is with the owner = ok



(a) Every person owning or having in charge any dog or dogs shall at all times confine such dog or dogs to the limits of his own premises or the premises on which such dog or dogs is or are regularly kept

That isn't how it reads.

Last edited by IDOT; 01/18/13 12:42 PM.

Originally Posted by Patricia Heaton
If you’re a common sense person, you probably don’t feel you have a home in this world right now. If you’re a Christian, you know you were never meant to.


Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: bamachem] #506614
01/18/13 12:42 PM
01/18/13 12:42 PM
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bamachem Offline OP
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Not if the owner and dog are on different properties. When that happens, the owner is no longer accompanying the dog!

Nothing in the law allows for the dog to legally trespass.

Last edited by bamachem; 01/18/13 12:49 PM.

MOLON LABE
Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: bamachem] #506616
01/18/13 12:44 PM
01/18/13 12:44 PM
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Frankie Offline
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laws are kinda fuzzy , i know a guy that paid 3800 $ for killing a dog that was killing his chickens. since he knew who owned the dog .


me ,,, i slaughter 4 dogs one time and the county came got them and they told me to kill the other if it came back .

i never seen a reason to kill one just for running deer , as in a pet or hunting dog . poor stray looking dogs and cats have no chance around here though .

Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: bamachem] #506619
01/18/13 12:45 PM
01/18/13 12:45 PM
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Frankie Offline
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Originally Posted By: bamachem
Not if the owner and dog are on different properties. When that happens, the owner is no longer accompanying the dog!


it does not imply that or state that , they are sill together

Last edited by Frankie; 01/18/13 12:46 PM.
Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: Frankie] #506622
01/18/13 12:47 PM
01/18/13 12:47 PM
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IDOT  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Frankie
Originally Posted By: bamachem
Not if the owner and dog are on different properties. When that happens, the owner is no longer accompanying the dog!


it does not imply that or state that , they are sill together


Frankie, what part of the below are you not reading?


Every person owning or having in charge any dog or dogs shall at all times confine such dog or dogs to the limits of his own premises or the premises on which such dog or dogs is or are regularly kept


Originally Posted by Patricia Heaton
If you’re a common sense person, you probably don’t feel you have a home in this world right now. If you’re a Christian, you know you were never meant to.


Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: bamachem] #506626
01/18/13 12:50 PM
01/18/13 12:50 PM
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Frankie Offline
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person may not let their dog run at large off of their own premisis unless the dog is accompanying the owner!

it does not say on a leach , or has to be by his side it says ,,,,,accompanying the owner

Last edited by Frankie; 01/18/13 12:52 PM.
Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: bamachem] #506629
01/18/13 12:53 PM
01/18/13 12:53 PM
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Frankie Offline
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ask ,,, Fred !!!! i think he'll say the same

Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: Frankie] #506630
01/18/13 12:54 PM
01/18/13 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: Frankie
person may not let their dog run at large off of their own premisis unless the dog is accompanying the owner!


If the dog is on someone elses land and the owner is with the dog without permission, then what is the owner doing?



TRESSPASSING


Originally Posted by Patricia Heaton
If you’re a common sense person, you probably don’t feel you have a home in this world right now. If you’re a Christian, you know you were never meant to.


Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: bamachem] #506631
01/18/13 12:57 PM
01/18/13 12:57 PM
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Frankie Offline
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people trespass , dogs animals do not . just like people read the paper and dogs do not

Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: bamachem] #506635
01/18/13 01:01 PM
01/18/13 01:01 PM
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I can assure you that trespass laws for hunting dogs don't exist in AL.

You are providing bad info as an Administrator on a website.

Why not just call Montgomery yourself??

I guess it has not occurred to you yet the very case that spawned this tesulted in NO charges being filed against the dog owners.

Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: bamachem] #506636
01/18/13 01:02 PM
01/18/13 01:02 PM
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My question would be - Why haven't more dog hunters received a violation/ticket/criminal charge. According to this, Game Wardens have had more than enough proof to meet quota and told me there was nothing they could do. That's why I always said - a bowhunter can climb a tree 3 foot across a property line, and receive a ticket, but a dog can run a mile on your property, and it's legal - in legal counties. Which is by far the dumbest legal act of trespassing imaginable.

Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: turkey247] #506639
01/18/13 01:06 PM
01/18/13 01:06 PM
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Frankie Offline
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Originally Posted By: turkey247
My question would be - Why haven't more dog hunters received a violation/ticket/criminal charge. According to this, Game Wardens have had more than enough proof to meet quota and told me there was nothing they could do. That's why I always said - a bowhunter can climb a tree 3 foot across a property line, and receive a ticket, but a dog can run a mile on your property, and it's legal - in legal counties. Which is by far the dumbest legal act of trespassing imaginable.






because a dog is not a human


Last edited by Frankie; 01/18/13 01:07 PM.
Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them [Re: bamachem] #506640
01/18/13 01:09 PM
01/18/13 01:09 PM
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turkey247 Offline
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Saying because a dog is not a human furthers my point. Who is the true hunter in the dog hunting situation. If you don't have the ability to answer - the dog, please remove yourself from discussing this topic until some form of reality sets in.

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