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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: Frankie]
#506724
01/18/13 02:35 PM
01/18/13 02:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437 Your mom’s house
doekiller
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
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oooooooooooooooooook , since we just got to do this
Section 3-4-6 Liability of owner of animal breaking into lands not enclosed by lawful fence for trespass or damages; liability of person injuring or destroying such animal.
(a) If any trespass or damage is done by any animal breaking into lands not enclosed by a lawful fence as defined in this chapter, the owner shall not be liable therefor.
(b) If any person injures or destroys any such animal, he shall be liable to the owner for five times the amount of injury done, to be recovered before any court of competent jurisdiction. (Code 1852, §1100; Code 1867, §1283; Code 1876, §1587; Code 1886, §1365; Code 1896, §2113; Code 1907, §4245; Code 1923, §7975; Code 1940, T. 3, §65.) Title 3, Chapter 4 deals with livestock and only livestock. The title of the Chapter is "Fences and Livestock".
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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: Frankie]
#506725
01/18/13 02:36 PM
01/18/13 02:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 15,149 Fairhope
bamachem
OP
Old Mossy Horns
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OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 15,149
Fairhope
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oooooooooooooooooook , since we just got to do this
Section 3-4-6 Liability of owner of animal breaking into lands not enclosed by lawful fence for trespass or damages; liability of person injuring or destroying such animal.
(a) If any trespass or damage is done by any animal breaking into lands not enclosed by a lawful fence as defined in this chapter, the owner shall not be liable therefor.
(b) If any person injures or destroys any such animal, he shall be liable to the owner for five times the amount of injury done, to be recovered before any court of competent jurisdiction. (Code 1852, §1100; Code 1867, §1283; Code 1876, §1587; Code 1886, §1365; Code 1896, §2113; Code 1907, §4245; Code 1923, §7975; Code 1940, T. 3, §65.) More case law. That statute has been repealed... Sorry Frankie, try again. Link to Monfee vs. SeymorOur research reveals that prior to 1941 Alabama was an open range state where it was lawful for one to allow his livestock to go at large on the lands of another. Under Alabama's open range laws, the owner of livestock was not liable for damages for intrusions of stock on the lands of another.
1201*1201 The burden was upon the crop growing landowner to fence livestock out. Glover v. Pugh, supra; Randle v. Payne, 39 Ala.App. 652, 107 So.2d 907 (1958), cert. denied, 268 Ala. 697, 107 So.2d 913 (1959).
In 1939, the legislature enacted a comprehensive stock law. Under its provisions, which include our present Code sections 3-5-2 and 3-5-3, Alabama was declared a closed range state. See, § 3-5-2(c), Code of Ala.1975. There were, however, provisions whereby a county could elect to become open range. Act No. 368, Acts of Alabama 1939, p. 487.
In 1951, the legislature declared it unlawful to permit livestock to run at large in any county; abolished all open range counties; and repealed the Code sections providing for the creation of open range counties along with "all other laws or parts of laws in conflict herewith." Act No. 53, Acts of Alabama 1951, p. 266.
In other words, the legislature worked a complete change in Alabama's stock laws and in doing so repealed all laws that were in harmony with the concept of an open range. Whereas under prior law the burden was on the landowner to fence stock out, Hurd v. Lacy, 93 Ala. 427, 9 So. 378 (1890); Rowe v. Baber, 93 Ala. 422, 8 So. 865 (1890), the burden is now on the stock owner to fence his stock in. Glover v. Pugh, supra; Randle v. Payne, supra; Revel v. Prince, 37 Ala.App. 457, 69 So.2d 470 (1954); §§ 3-5-2(a) and 3-5-3(a), Code of Ala.1975.
We find § 3-4-6(a) to be in harmony with the concept of open range and in conflict with present law inasmuch as § 3-4-6(a) in effect requires a landowner to erect a lawful fence to protect his crops and shields a stock owner from liability when the landowner has failed to do so. Code section 3-4-6(a) has, therefore, been repealed by the 1951 Act and it is no longer the law of this state.
For this reason, we find the trial court did not err in refusing plaintiff's requested written charges.
Link with even more discussion of Monfee v. Seymore
Last edited by bamachem; 01/18/13 02:43 PM.
MOLON LABE
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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: bamachem]
#506729
01/18/13 02:45 PM
01/18/13 02:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 68,972 Luverne, AL
Skinny
GUVNER
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GUVNER
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 68,972
Luverne, AL
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Just to add a little more fuel to this fire. There is a pre-filed bill for this years legislative session that amends the animal cruelty laws. Ya'll should look that sucker up. I think its HB27
"Never Trust Government" -- Smart people. "You must have free speech in order to have democracy. That's why it is the First Amendment. And the Second Amendment is there to ensure that we have the First Amendment." -- Elon Musk 10-6-2024 "You can be broke but you cant be poor." -- Ruthie-May Webster
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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: doekiller]
#506734
01/18/13 02:52 PM
01/18/13 02:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,123 Northport, Al.
BOFF
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,123
Northport, Al.
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WOW!! Much like everything else, one must know the whole story/law. What comes in the beginning, the middle, and the ending, to understand correctly, and accurately, the whole meaning. One can not go, and pick pieces to fit one's situation, and expect it to be accurate. Although there is some interpretation of things/laws, I don't believe anyone posting yet, including myself, has the qualifications to do so. At least by my interpretation of the interpretations posted thus far. God Bless, David B.
Premium member #8925 Team Rack Addicts 2016 Aldeer Deer Champions
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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: bamachem]
#506741
01/18/13 02:59 PM
01/18/13 02:59 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,385 Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,385
Elmore County
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oooooooooooooooooook , since we just got to do this
Section 3-4-6 Liability of owner of animal breaking into lands not enclosed by lawful fence for trespass or damages; liability of person injuring or destroying such animal.
(a) If any trespass or damage is done by any animal breaking into lands not enclosed by a lawful fence as defined in this chapter, the owner shall not be liable therefor.
(b) If any person injures or destroys any such animal, he shall be liable to the owner for five times the amount of injury done, to be recovered before any court of competent jurisdiction. (Code 1852, §1100; Code 1867, §1283; Code 1876, §1587; Code 1886, §1365; Code 1896, §2113; Code 1907, §4245; Code 1923, §7975; Code 1940, T. 3, §65.) More case law. That statute has been repealed... Sorry Frankie, try again. Link to Monfee vs. SeymorOur research reveals that prior to 1941 Alabama was an open range state where it was lawful for one to allow his livestock to go at large on the lands of another. Under Alabama's open range laws, the owner of livestock was not liable for damages for intrusions of stock on the lands of another.
1201*1201 The burden was upon the crop growing landowner to fence livestock out. Glover v. Pugh, supra; Randle v. Payne, 39 Ala.App. 652, 107 So.2d 907 (1958), cert. denied, 268 Ala. 697, 107 So.2d 913 (1959).
In 1939, the legislature enacted a comprehensive stock law. Under its provisions, which include our present Code sections 3-5-2 and 3-5-3, Alabama was declared a closed range state. See, § 3-5-2(c), Code of Ala.1975. There were, however, provisions whereby a county could elect to become open range. Act No. 368, Acts of Alabama 1939, p. 487.
In 1951, the legislature declared it unlawful to permit livestock to run at large in any county; abolished all open range counties; and repealed the Code sections providing for the creation of open range counties along with "all other laws or parts of laws in conflict herewith." Act No. 53, Acts of Alabama 1951, p. 266.
In other words, the legislature worked a complete change in Alabama's stock laws and in doing so repealed all laws that were in harmony with the concept of an open range. Whereas under prior law the burden was on the landowner to fence stock out, Hurd v. Lacy, 93 Ala. 427, 9 So. 378 (1890); Rowe v. Baber, 93 Ala. 422, 8 So. 865 (1890), the burden is now on the stock owner to fence his stock in. Glover v. Pugh, supra; Randle v. Payne, supra; Revel v. Prince, 37 Ala.App. 457, 69 So.2d 470 (1954); §§ 3-5-2(a) and 3-5-3(a), Code of Ala.1975.
We find § 3-4-6(a) to be in harmony with the concept of open range and in conflict with present law inasmuch as § 3-4-6(a) in effect requires a landowner to erect a lawful fence to protect his crops and shields a stock owner from liability when the landowner has failed to do so. Code section 3-4-6(a) has, therefore, been repealed by the 1951 Act and it is no longer the law of this state.
For this reason, we find the trial court did not err in refusing plaintiff's requested written charges.
Link with even more discussion of Monfee v. Seymore seems to me like its only applies to crop damage ??? any how i'm done , i lose , i don't care tell u the truth . hell , i've killed my share of dogs and cats just never a hunting dog . hunting dogs never bothered me or my hunting .
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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: doekiller]
#506742
01/18/13 03:00 PM
01/18/13 03:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,385 Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,385
Elmore County
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oooooooooooooooooook , since we just got to do this
Section 3-4-6 Liability of owner of animal breaking into lands not enclosed by lawful fence for trespass or damages; liability of person injuring or destroying such animal.
(a) If any trespass or damage is done by any animal breaking into lands not enclosed by a lawful fence as defined in this chapter, the owner shall not be liable therefor.
(b) If any person injures or destroys any such animal, he shall be liable to the owner for five times the amount of injury done, to be recovered before any court of competent jurisdiction. (Code 1852, §1100; Code 1867, §1283; Code 1876, §1587; Code 1886, §1365; Code 1896, §2113; Code 1907, §4245; Code 1923, §7975; Code 1940, T. 3, §65.) Title 3, Chapter 4 deals with livestock and only livestock. The title of the Chapter is "Fences and Livestock". i agree with that .
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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: BOFF]
#506743
01/18/13 03:01 PM
01/18/13 03:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 15,149 Fairhope
bamachem
OP
Old Mossy Horns
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OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 15,149
Fairhope
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... Although there is some interpretation of things/laws, I don't believe anyone posting yet, including myself, has the qualifications to do so. At least by my interpretation of the interpretations posted thus far. ... You are correct. The ONLY people who are allowed to professionally interpret laws are Judges who have juristiction over those laws. Therefore, we must refer to case law to determine how they may be applied. Looking at the case law involved with the statutes in question, a person can be found guilty of a misdemeanor if they allow their dog to roam on another property not their own. Also, if said dog is threatening any person, animal, or bird, the dog may be shot and the person who shoots them shall not be subject to the statutes regarding Animal Cruelty in Alabama. It's pretty clear...
MOLON LABE
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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: Skinny]
#506744
01/18/13 03:02 PM
01/18/13 03:02 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,385 Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,385
Elmore County
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Just to add a little more fuel to this fire. There is a pre-filed bill for this years legislative session that amends the animal cruelty laws. Ya'll should look that sucker up. I think its HB27 i don't like the law we have now
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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: bamachem]
#506746
01/18/13 03:05 PM
01/18/13 03:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,385 Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,385
Elmore County
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... Although there is some interpretation of things/laws, I don't believe anyone posting yet, including myself, has the qualifications to do so. At least by my interpretation of the interpretations posted thus far. ... You are correct. The ONLY people who are allowed to professionally interpret laws are Judges who have juristiction over those laws. Therefore, we must refer to case law to determine how they may be applied. Looking at the case law involved with the statutes in question, a person can be found guilty of a misdemeanor if they allow their dog to roam on another property not their own. Also, if said dog is threatening any person, animal, or bird, the dog may be shot and the person who shoots them shall not be subject to the statutes regarding Animal Cruelty in Alabama. It's pretty clear... i'll ask this and thats it , how many hunters do u know that was guilty by law for thier dogs
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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: bamachem]
#506747
01/18/13 03:06 PM
01/18/13 03:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 15,149 Fairhope
bamachem
OP
Old Mossy Horns
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OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 15,149
Fairhope
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Yeah, it establishes a statute in regards to "Aggrivated Cruelty to Animals". Under existing law, a person commits the 9 crime of cruelty to animals if, except as otherwise 10 authorized by law, he or she intentionally or 11 recklessly subjects any animal to cruel 12 mistreatment, subjects any animal in his or her 13 custody to cruel neglect, or kills or injures 14 without good cause any animal belonging to another. 15 Cruelty to animals is a Class B misdemeanor. 16 This bill would add acts that are done 17 knowingly or with criminal negligence to the 18 prohibition and make the crime a Class A 19 misdemeanor. 20 This bill would provide for the crime of 21 aggravated animal cruelty when the act of cruelty 22 or neglect was heinous, atrocious, cruel, or 23 involved infliction of torture to the animal. 24 Aggravated animal cruelty would be a Class C 25 felony.
MOLON LABE
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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: Frankie]
#506750
01/18/13 03:11 PM
01/18/13 03:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 15,149 Fairhope
bamachem
OP
Old Mossy Horns
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OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 15,149
Fairhope
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i'll ask this and thats it , how many hunters do u know that was guilty by law for thier dogs I don't personally claim to know any. What I posted was the law as it is written and case law which supports it's application. If you can post any case law which is in contradiction to the case law I have posted, I'd love to see it. Again, I don't abdicate the shooting of dogs just because they cross an invisible line. I hate to see and/or hear about instances where that happens. I also hate to hear or see people type that "shooting a dog is illegal" when it's simply not true in all cases. I also hate to hear or see people type that "dogs crossing property lines is not illegal" when it clearly is, and case law supports that philosophy. What this should do is to make the people who choose to run dogs be very careful on how they release the dogs and how they hunt. They should also choose to be very careful in how they deal with ajoining land owners and leasees who have a problem with their actions. The law is PLAINLY on the side of the private landowner who does NOT want a dog to threaten animals on his property.
MOLON LABE
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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: Frankie]
#506781
01/18/13 03:35 PM
01/18/13 03:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,123 Northport, Al.
BOFF
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,123
Northport, Al.
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I believe for what it is worth, the time it takes for me to try to catch dogs running on my property; chase after them; stop them, and then most of the time the dogs run away from me rather than coming to me, (imagine that); holding the dogs while trying to call the law; waiting on the law to get there while holding dogs or transporting the smelly mutts to my house to meet the law; contacting dog owners IF the name tags are even on the collars, and then only having the owners prosecuted for $50.00 is not worth my spare time, let alone the time I would have gotten paid, if I was at work.
It just at times just doesn't seem worth the effort, to try to catch the dogs and only have the owners fined such a measly amount. But I still do it when I'm feeling frisky. Now if the owners had to pay for my lost time in chasing after and rounding the dogs up, and a hefty fine on top of that, I'd be a full time dog chaser.
God Bless, David B.
Premium member #8925 Team Rack Addicts 2016 Aldeer Deer Champions
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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: BOFF]
#506783
01/18/13 03:36 PM
01/18/13 03:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 25,374 Guntersville, AL
IDOT
I am Cornholio
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I am Cornholio
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 25,374
Guntersville, AL
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I believe for what it is worth, the time it takes for me to try to catch dogs running on my property; chase after them; stop them, and then most of the time the dogs run away from me rather than coming to me, (imagine that); holding the dogs while trying to call the law; waiting on the law to get there while holding dogs or transporting the smelly mutts to my house to meet the law; contacting dog owners IF the name tags are even on the collars, and then only having the owners prosecuted for $50.00 is not worth my spare time, let alone the time I would have gotten paid, if I was at work.
It just at times just doesn't seem worth the effort, to try to catch the dogs and only have the owners fined such a measly amount. But I still do it when I'm feeling frisky. Now if the owners had to pay for my lost time in chasing after and rounding the dogs up, and a hefty fine on top of that, I'd be a full time dog chaser.
God Bless, David B. So what you are saying is SSS?
If you’re a common sense person, you probably don’t feel you have a home in this world right now. If you’re a Christian, you know you were never meant to.
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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: BOFF]
#506789
01/18/13 03:41 PM
01/18/13 03:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 15,149 Fairhope
bamachem
OP
Old Mossy Horns
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OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 15,149
Fairhope
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I believe for what it is worth, the time it takes for me to try to catch dogs running on my property; chase after them; stop them, and then most of the time the dogs run away from me rather than coming to me, (imagine that); holding the dogs while trying to call the law; waiting on the law to get there while holding dogs or transporting the smelly mutts to my house to meet the law; contacting dog owners IF the name tags are even on the collars, and then only having the owners prosecuted for $50.00 is not worth my spare time, let alone the time I would have gotten paid, if I was at work.
It just at times just doesn't seem worth the effort, to try to catch the dogs and only have the owners fined such a measly amount. But I still do it when I'm feeling frisky. Now if the owners had to pay for my lost time in chasing after and rounding the dogs up, and a hefty fine on top of that, I'd be a full time dog chaser.
God Bless, David B. The key is not the fine but the fact that it is a misdemeanor, not a simple citation. They must appear before a Judge and are subject to jail time. If the Judge sees them more than once, you can bet it won't go well for the defendant.
MOLON LABE
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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: t123winters]
#506792
01/18/13 03:42 PM
01/18/13 03:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 26,121 Locust Fork, Alabama
BC
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 26,121
Locust Fork, Alabama
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What is going to happen here in the near future, dog hunting will be banned,simply because people can't get along. I am so glad we don't have dog hunting up here... Winner winner chicken dinner. The sad thing is that it wouldn't come to that if the doggers would keep their damn dogs on their side of the line instead of telling you how much they are helping you and threatening to kill you if you mess with their dogs. No regard for anyone or anything else. When are you guys going to realize you are the aggressors in this situation? Nobody is bothering you or your way of hunting but the same cant be said about you. You guys are your own worst enemy and you are in the minority. Soon it will be shut down and you can look in the mirror for someone to blame. For the record I don't support gunning down a mans hunting dog. I do believe he should go to court and pay out the ass if his dog runs across a property line onto a property they are not welcome at.
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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: IDOT]
#506794
01/18/13 03:48 PM
01/18/13 03:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,123 Northport, Al.
BOFF
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,123
Northport, Al.
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No,
I'm saying I'm not as young and in shape as I used to be for running all over our place.
I have had several meeting with dog owners, and even in the past held the dogs and fed them until the owners would pick the dogs up. Some owners were very appreciative, others were complete rear ends.
Now I just call the sheriff deputy, and press charges if possible. The situation has gotten slightly better, but I also haven't had as much time to be on the property either due to other obligations.
Wish there was a "good solution" as I believe as hunters we need to stand together, or we may lose our privileges to hunt. I just don't see any good solution for BOTH parties.
God Bless, David B.
Premium member #8925 Team Rack Addicts 2016 Aldeer Deer Champions
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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: bamachem]
#506796
01/18/13 03:49 PM
01/18/13 03:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 15,149 Fairhope
bamachem
OP
Old Mossy Horns
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OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 15,149
Fairhope
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Kidding.
At least now hunting clubs who do NOT want dogs on their property might know that they actually DO have legal recourse under the law, despite what a GW or Deputy might say contrary to that. The law is cut and dry, and the owner of the dog is responsible for his animal and must keep him off property not his own.
MOLON LABE
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Re: Discussion: AL laws regarding Trespass of Hunting Dogs and legality of shooting them
[Re: bamachem]
#506816
01/18/13 04:09 PM
01/18/13 04:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,050 Sylacauga
doecommander
things that make you go hmmmmmmm
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things that make you go hmmmmmmm
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,050
Sylacauga
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I agree with bamachem. We need a clicky with the law.
doecommander out...........................
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