NightHunter,



I haven't been able to find any at all... one way or the other.

Looks like as long as qdm has been around there would be at least one.

49er, it's obvious no one on aldeer can answer your questions. I suggest you go to the QDMA web site forums and ask ALL your QDMA/QDM questions.

The costs are so high to do the studies that they can't get funding. Body weights and antler size also can drastically depend on rain. My thoughts are it would take 10 plus years to do this type of study and most researchers aren't going to put that kind of time into a project. They might, I don't know. Most folks putting their money in research want results faster than that IMO.

That leaves only personal opinions for us to go on.

Thanks for the honesty.

Most here won't admit to that. Some would give up their left nut before they would admit qdm is an unproven collection of theories.

I just finished up some business here in Montgomery and killing a little time before I pick up ElkHunter for lunch. I read the title of the post and just snickered and thought, "Oh boy, I can't wait to read this thread!"

First of all, WMD, I am glad I finally convinced you that I am NOT a strict trophy deer mgmt guy and that if a 2 yr old buck is killed, the individual is not going to the devil.

As a member since 1994, I believe in the QDMA philosophy and it 100 percent works. QDM is not TDM. QDMA, along with other things, asked for more involvement, participation, understanding, discipline and putting something other than yourself, first.

QDMA allows for that first-time hunter or even a first-time hunter who is 30 years old, to shoot any buck of desire. However, the common objectives stay the same. In QDMA, sorry, but there is no place for the selfish hunter and putting others first, which includes the game we hunt and the land we hunt.

Before anyone bad mouths The QDMA, get on its website and do a little research and its philosophy. When you bad mouth the QDMA talking about antler size and killing all the does you can, it is evidence of ignorance on your part.

QDMA is a great conduit for education and it welcomes all.

I would also back that up with years of data. Data is not scientific research, it only shows trends. I have been keeping data on multiple properties in AL for years. I can say DEFINITIVELY that QDM principles and at least decent land management does produce the following:

1. Better age class structure
2. Better sex ratios
3. Better recruitment numbers
4. Overall larger bodied bucks and does
5. Overall larger antlered bucks in the older age classes

This is purely based off of deer harvested that I have access to across the state on multiple managed tracts. We also do population survey/estimates as well.

So you cant see why anybody would kill this 5 1/2 year old 205LB 5 point? In my mind he was just as hard to kill, no matter how many points he has. Counting points doesn't mean a thing, you said it earlier in your post when discussing the 110 inch 10 point.

Tell you what 49er, you take a 1000 acre tract of land and I will take the neighboring 1000 acre tract of land - anywhere in the country where whitetail deer live. I'll practice QDM and you manage your tract ignoring all the principles of QDM. I will GUARANTEE you that my tract will have a better balanced deer herd, more older age class bucks, a more intense rut and an overall better hunting experience.

To argue with QDM after 25 years of proven results all over the country is just plain silly.

Oh, and QDM has nothing to do with antlers. Yes, higher scoring deer can be a part of it, but it is more about age, nutrition and a balanced herd. Most true QDM managers view the jawbone and the scale as the measurement of a trophy, not the rack.

Droptines, kaboooom!

Thanks guys for all the replys and info! I have 160 acres and have 14,000 acre hunting club around me. They are currently on an 8 point or better buck rule and harvest does. I have noticed an increase in the amount of bucks on my property in the 3 and 4 year old range. I rattle up deer reguraly and have killed some nice bucks in the past years. I have currently started a QDMA branch in South West Alabama and just wanted to get yalls opion and see how many of yall believe in the QDM principles! Thanks!

If the two tracts are neighboring and 49er shoots whatever.....it will negatively impact your your herd.......deer do cross property lines you know.....

droptines,


It's silly to call biased personal opinions scientific proof of anything.

If I am not mistaken didn't Al Brothers have a seminar on QDM at the 1988 deer expo in Mobile?

Don't miss that I can back up mine with true harvest numbers...

it's beyond silly to say QDMAs practices won't/can't/don't work....actually it's beyond stupid....

I realize that. My tract will STILL be better even if he is doing that. Seen it proven too many times to not believe in it.

Oh, there is plenty of proof out there. You just choose to ignore it.

And even if there wasn't, just use a little common sense for God's sake. It's not that complicated.

Doesn't have to be different properties. You can take your 1000 acres that has huge mature timber ( it can even be pine ) , no food plots, too many does and too few older age class bucks. Then you decide you want to implement a few QDM practices, timber thinning, burning program, quality year round food plots, taking does as needed, letting younger age class bucks walk. I'm thinking this is what 1000s of landowners , managers and hunters have done with much success. They see heavier birth weights, heavier mature weights, better overall health, better buck to doe ratio, more older age class bucks and yes, larger antlers. People that have done this and there are many don't need a study to tell them it works!
It's not for everyone, FINE, but to say it doesn't work because one doesn't agree with it is beyond stupid. 49er's not that stupid, he just wants to pick a fight. Still think he should go to the QDMA site and see if those fellows can give him some "data".

2dogs,

There's part of your problem. You're relying on QDMA staff for your information. Those guys make their living selling their ideas to you. They are about as biased as you can get.

On the other hand, I wouldn't make a good experimenter either, because I'm biased as well. The best people to conduct an accurate experiment would be those who are not affected one way or the other by the results.

Your idea of proving that qdm works won't work. If you've ever studied scientific methods, you should know that the scenario you described will not yield an accurate comparison for accurate evaluation.

There should be a "control" tract and a manipulated tract that are as similar as possible to begin with. Every non-qdm variable that is not part of the experiment should be allowed to affect both tracts as equally as possible in a parallel set of circumstances and time ... weather, predation, timber harvest, etc.

Accurate data would have to be collected before, during and after the experiment. Even the methods of collecting data have an effect on the accuracy of the experiment. Every aspect of the experiment is open to criticism of its accuracy.

Your scenario is the way most qdm'ers evaluate the results of their manipulation to form their opinions, but it prove anything.