And I agree, but that was not an attack......it was a statement on what I have learned from years of reading his posts

First of all, QDMA started in 1988 and John Wayne died in 1979 so he wasn't a member.
Not too long after the QDMA stated we sponsored I think 3 yearly meetings in Troy. They were all about the same every year, sign in, pay for entrance fee, pay and help yourself to the open bar, sign up pay for membership, buy raffle tickets, eat, buy more raffle tickets, drink, sell statues, buy raffle tickets, drink, sell pictures, buy, buy, buy. The speakers the first year were interesting, but they usually had one theme, kill does, kill does, kill does. The next couple of years were more of the same. About the same as NWTF meetings, less the kill does.

timbercruiser... let'cha in on a little secret. When I mentioned John Wayne as well as Ronald Reagan, I was being a smart ass and I didn't think anyone would actually take me serious on that statement. It was laughable jab at 49er because most all red-blooded conservative men love those two guys. I know 49er knew I was not serious.

If you think QDMA promotes the killing of does, does, does... kill'em all! There's only one thing to call you - ignorant about the QDMA.

Don't practice QDM if you don't like it. Just abide by state laws.

Good luck... I'm still waiting on someone to point out that the States regulations are not QDM and for him to acknowledge that habitat management, predator control, timber management, etc, ALL are part of QDM. Don't hold your breath, it does not fit his agenda to discuss those.



That's why I don't belong to either.

Would somebody, please, delete this thread.

I went to the meetings and that was the message along with money, money, money.. The question was ask to one of the deer biologist at one of the meetings, "If a mature doe comes out in the plot with two doe fawns which one do you shoot", he said "All of them". Note I said this was 12 or so years ago.

Like the silica gel packs in some electronics that the silica mfg was forced to stamp "Do Not Eat" in bold print, there's a certain amount of "common sense" expected in life and QDM ain't any different.

If you're starting to practice QDM and you think your average Wilcox County deers' weights and antler size, etc... are going to resemble IA, MO, IL or Canada... you've got more problems than sex ratios and herd health!

Information and advice is everywhere! Measuring herd heath is done by more than one data point. A majority of your does having triplets? That's "one" great indicator. There are many more.

You may have to start with current collected data (QDMA or ANY biologist will help you) and move forward to establish a trend.

"I've been managing my Florida Key Deer for 5 years now and I can't get not nair'one buck to look like the ones I seen killed in Illinois and Iowa!! QDM just ain't working for me!!!"

Hey Coffee, this such guy has more problems than just his deer herd!!!!

Don't eat the silica packets!

Damn Coffee, you don't listen to me!!! You're throwing mud to see what will stick.

Reading your post I quoted above, I don't have a $%^& problem with what you killed on your property. As long as you stay within the law, it's none of my business and I don't care. If you want to down QDMA, then yeah, I'll stand toe-to-toe with you but I would respect your opinion but I won't back down to you.

For some reason, you think I'd care what you shoot on your property. Again, as long as you're within the law, I don't care. Regarding your example above, your hunting footprint on your property in Ga is NOT hurting anything about the deer herd. You don't hunt and kill enough deer (mature bucks or immature bucks or does, etc...) to manipulate the deer herd any at all. What you're doing is 100% fine with me!!!!

I have ALWAYS said that if your property can absorb the killing of some immature bucks, that IS FINE!!! KILL'EM! It's all about numbers and what's being killed. NO, I don't agree with a 500 acre piece of property having 20 immature bucks shot. Want to shoot a few spikes... go ahead. I'm not telling anyone what to do. Just abide by Alabama's three buck limit!! That's the law.

Hell, if I owned acreage and it was hunted very little, I would NOT care if I killed a spike or an immature 4 pt if I wanted some meat!!!

Stop painting me into a corner that says I am a strict 100% trophy deer mgr and if you kill a spike, you're a POS!! That's not true. That's not how I think.

All I would want is for you to care enough to attempt to manage your deer herd but that only comes into play if you're killing enough deer to make a difference in herd health. And to pull from another stupid obstacle you brought up... your local biologist can give you some suggested deer weights if you'd ask him!!

I'm not attempting to tell you what to kill on your property.

I will say that QDMA is a reputable organization with proven programs and if you hunt here in Alabama, abide by the law. Thanks.

This isn't what you have said in the past. In the past you have made comments about grown men shooting young bucks or about it being OK for kids to shoot young bucks.

Keep your story straight and we won't need to have these discussions.

How do you know having triplets is what is in the best interest of the health of the doe? What do you know about the metabolic demands and stresses on a doe during gestation and lactation when she is carrying triplets rather than the more common twins?

it's an indicator of her health, and therefore the habitat she lives in. you'd argue with a damn rock.....

That's not what I asked Fred.

Why don't we just skip the formalities and go straight to you starting to call people names?

Coffee..............I just advocate that the hunter; especially a mature hunter, give consideration to the species he/she is hunting. Ducks, deer, turkey, etc...

I support the three buck limit in Alabama and I support the QDMA. My argument isn't with anyone killing immature bucks.

And my point is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Put all your eggs in what the QDMA is selling, and you might miss discovering a better way.

Someone is making money off the QDMA, you can bet on that.

Thanks BhamFred. On average... a percentage of healthy does in a healthy habitat throw triplets. (Fixed it Coffee)

On average they do not throw triplets, and again I ask is triplets what is most healthy for the does? What about metabolic demands?

Selling?!?!? Go to the QDMA's website... they're providing as much information to anyone that's willing to read... for FREE!!!!!! You don't have to spend a dime and man, you can learn a TON about whitetail deer management and habitat!!! You can call some of the QDMA guys and ask questions and they'll provide some free advice!!!! Selling?!?!?!? What you're selling isn't true!

Please Coffee, tell me a better way to achieve a balanced sex ratio within the carrying capacity of the land and how to enhance the habitat to increase browse AND increase carrying capacity. While you're at it... please tell me what your view point of "healthy deer herd" means!!!!! I am all ears!!!

Coffee, I was going to tell you about my relationship with Mossy Oak and me living in Atlanta and being involved with the QDMA in 1994 and the QDMA being strictly a biology-pure magazine with no advertisements at all, but the story is too long.

I can tell you this... The QDMA offers a TON of free information on its website that won't costs you a dime. I know Brian Murphy and I have hunted and broken bread with Brian Murphy several times and he believes in what he's doing. I haven't seen BM in years now and I have been less involved in the local chapter as I had other obligations but I do not think there is any scamming going on. There's a board of directors with some reputable individuals.

The knowledge-base of the organization continues to come from universities and biologists all over the nation.

It's a quality conservation organization and I can tell you... The QDMA doesn't take in as much money as DU or the NWTF.

Anyway, like it or not, they'll still provide you with a lot of information.

You're right Coffee. What I meant was that on average, "a percentage" of does in a healthy pop with healthy habitat, will throw triplets. I didn't mean it as "on average" per every doe.

Supposedly, twins are the norm in most populations, but as many as 15 to 20 percent of does will throw triplets when deer pops are in balance with high-quality habitat.

In a healthy deer pop within the carrying capacity of the land with healthy habitat, I guess Mother Nature thinks the doe can handle the added fawn because of her health. Does do have more than two teats.

I guess it's nature's way of "making hay while the sun shines", so to speak!

BTW, I love that extra fawn. Maybe the third fawn will be a buck! I do love shooting mature bucks and I like seeing bucks when I hunt!!!

That's pretty funny right there!!

I went to the QDMA website to check my "triplet" percentage and see Coffee, information is FREE!!!

Anyway, I didn't know this:

Taken from QDMA website...

Did you know that twin and triplet fawns were not necessarily sired by a single buck? Research has shown that 20 to 25 percent of twin fawn sets were sired by two different bucks. Recently, the first case of "multiple paternity" in a set of triplets - meaning three different sires - was documented by researchers at Auburn University in Alabama

That's free info!!! FREE!!!

Sleazy does!!!