You have to start somewhere.... It takes history to create data.... We in Alabama have no history... In order to get history the State has established this program... It is and has worked in other States... and will work in this State when we get a report on the past data.. In order to get this data you have to have people/hunters tell us what is going on in the kill zone...

I told you I wasn't no damn biologist, I am a smartass though.

With the State buying up land all over the State, it looks to me that that would be a good random sample. They could take those numbers that they are getting there with their head counts and get an approximate number using their blowup factor.

So instead of the government doing a census every 10 years they can just count death certificates? Wow, I just saved us millions of dollars!

lets see there's the B&C records and P&Y records . alabama even has a record book showing where the trophys where killed .

like those ,,, this data will only tell you where what was killed . the data will tell a lot , i agree but it is useless as for management .

it's a guessing game still just with new and unneeded laws

Nighthunter, since you seem to be real tight with the hunting industry through Soterra, make all of the leaseholders and Soterra as a company provide ALL information on ALL deer that are on, travel through, die on, get killed on or seen on those properties report that in log form to the DNCR. Then the DNCR would have a great idea of the deer that was on, traveled through, died on or was killed on those properties and they could "MANAGE" them for you and Soterra and no further information would be required from anybody else since they extrapolate anyways, right??

lets see there's the B&C records and P&Y records . alabama even has a record book showing where the trophys where killed .

like those ,,, this data will only tell you where what was killed . the data will tell a lot , i agree but it is useless as for management .

it's a guessing game still just with new and unneeded laws

This will be county data not just he statewide level. Knowing x county WILL be useful.

These numbers will be used to understand herd dynamics from top to bottom. Age structure, sex ratios, harvest numbers, total numbers and etc.. Eventually they will be coupled with browse surveys, fetal surveys and the like to get a handle on carrying capacity and herd health. An undertaking like this takes time. They have a plan but it is a step by step process. They have the tools and the minds to do it, now they just need the time and data.

TN has done a tremendous job with their data collection. I hope we are as successful.

A few questions to ponder.

1. How did they manage deer through the 70's & 80's when they didn't have this information? There were areas that had near zero deer, but had substantial increases in deer populations during that time and the limit on bucks was one per day.

2. How can the DNCR manage deer populations in counties like Jefferson where there are many small landowners that do not allow hunting or large landowners like Barber's, etc that do not allow hunting? I live in Jefferson County in a small cul-de-sac subdivision and see deer in my neighborhood daily and they feed in my yard when the acorns fall and the University of Alabama owns large parcels around me that can not be hunted. How does killed records help manage that??

3. How do they get accurate information in rural counties where large tracks are leased by a few trophy, excuse me, "mature" deer only hunters that kill very few deer per acre in a area that has a high deer populations? Or large landowners that only allow a very select few hunt and shoot only one or two deer because they like for their grandkids to see deer when they come to visit? How do kill records help??

The most important question:
4. Can the State manage deer better in and around the property you hunt on having never set foot on it and just reviewing deer kill records of deer killed 20 miles away on the other side of the County than you can when you know what you property offers wildlife and what you see and experience on the land that you hunt??????

I for one believe that the individual can manage for the goals they set for their hunting property better than the State can manage the same property from useless kill data. Is there any problems with the State having BROAD guidelines and allowing the individual to manage to their own goals and wants??

Soooo.. B&C...and P&Y record show EVERY kill in ALABAMA... Well then I guess you are right...Especially when our harvest record allows anything but those deer...Let's see here...two spikes and one four point... Can I enter those into B&C.. and P&Y...???

These numbers will be used to understand herd dynamics from top to bottom. Age structure, sex ratios, harvest numbers, total numbers and etc.. Eventually they will be coupled with browse surveys, fetal surveys and the like to get a handle on carrying capacity and herd health. An undertaking like this takes time. They have a plan but it is a step by step process. They have the tools and the minds to do it, now they just need the time and data.

TN has done a tremendous job with their data collection. I hope we are as successful.

you said there was no history .

all of it will show the same thing what was killed . it will not tell you how many trophy deer are there it will not show you how many spikes are there . it will not tell you the buck/doe ratio .

the data will tell you a lot but is useless when it comes to what needs to be killed .

You can't manage sh@# unless you have a fenced in property where you can control every aspect of the deer habitat and kill rate depending on what you want in your management scenario..

You can't manage sh@# unless you have a fenced in property where you can control every aspect of the deer habitat and kill rate depending on what you want in your management scenario..

Exactly...You have to create history first... In order to have any history....

In order to get that knowledge you must start somewhere...
What are you gonna do.. send a flyer out to every license buying deer hunter asking them what they have killed over the past ten years...