It truely is....I totally understand the idea of keeping the population at whatever the habitat can hold, but I think what is missing is the fact that each property is different. Yet more than not there is just a blanket recomendation for a doe harvest based on some average for the region.

I know a lot of hunters here in Mobile and Baldwin Counties and they hunt in clubs throughout Alabama. They are all saying the same thing this year. Not seeing many deer period. Most of them are in clubs using QDM and the results are varied. Four clubs I've been a member of over the years are well below their kill numbers since Alabama went to this liberal doe kill. They all feed year round by planting spring and summer crops. I know of several clubs that are now putting limits on the number of does that can be harvested yearly. Something needs to change.

The woods are getting thick. Deer used to eat the "browse" and keep things somewhat clean. I dont see near as many dear on the shoulder of the roads (alive or dead) that I used to. No one around us sees the numbers they used to. I dont need a biologist to tell me our numbers are down. Al must change our liberal doe harvest or loose our valued resource.

We cant continue to let the big political supporters (ALFA) decimate the whitetail population in this state. The Game and fish department is largely supported by our license fees. We (sportsmen) need to stand together on these issues and promise to vote for politicians that will support our heritage.

I have seen more deer this year on our land than I have since the 90's. We don't take too many does and sure don't practice QDM.

It could be said that our quality isn't as good as it could be with QDM managed land. I would rather watch deer when I go and have the ability to shoot what I please than have all my does shot up, not see very many deer, all in the belief that it produced better quality.


But I do understand every place is different and needs a different approach as far as sustainable harvest.......I just wish the DCNR would figure that out.

The thing that gets me is this time of the year I hear hunt where the does are and you will find the bucks. How do I hunt the does when we don't have any. Six years ago I used to see does regularly and this time of year bucks were not far behind. I don't believe this BS about thin out the does and the rut will be stronger. To me the does are what control the rut and you have to have them for a buck to chase before you see the rut going on. I think my odds of seeing a buck are a lot greater if I have ten does in a plot and one might be hot than to have one doe out there that isn't.

I run numerous trail cameras on our 200+ acres and I honestly believe we only have four does on our property, thats it.

There sure are a lot of distorted views about what QDM is or isn't. Not just on this thread either. QDM in a nutshell is about just having the knowledge and understanding of what is actually taking place in the woods so that you can make informed decisions....... as opposed to just shooting any or every deer with no further thoughts as to the impacts of your actions. Its about having the knowledge to assess a situation and determine what's best for each individual property.

Preach to your choir brother. In my experience the ones with the distorted views are the one who have the sticker and say they practice it. They don't understand the goal laid out on paper......to them it is the same as trophy management. Not all for or against understand and vice versa misunderstand.

And it appears that the State of Alabama has "assessed the situation and determined what's best".......for the whole state. Perhaps the external influences have played a large part in that as some eluded to.

I'm not a QDMer per say. They don't receive money from me. I do take what they say as, make the best decisions you can for YOUR PROPERTY. I think they were once more on the side of trophy management, but not so much anymore.
As for the state, I see their two doe a day limit as a great decision, it just didn't work out like they intended. I may be "living in a fairy tail" but I think their intent was I let us hunters make our own decisions. The law says you CAN harvest 2 does a day, NOT you HAVE TO harvest two a day. What they didn't realize is, a lot of people like to hear their gun go boom, and will follow the biologists word saying y'all have plenty of deer, shoot away! When that biologists has no more idea how many deer that place has than mr. Obama himself.
To me, you don't have to do expensive camera surveys, or hire a biologist. All it takes is a few people that know how to recognize a browse line walking pine thickets, riding roads looking at sign after season, and watching weights on deer and keeping up with the amount of deer they see during season. That may not be as accurate as some biologists coming in doing month or two long study, but it works for me, and costs very little. People make this stuff harder than it actually is I think. If your seeing 20-30 deer on fields, and browse lines on things such as privet, or something you know is less desirable, along with chewed bark on trees in extreme cases, then yes, it's time to kill a few. Just because your 1 acre plots are mowed down doesn't indicate overpopulation. We plant one of their most desirable foods, they're going to eat them to the ground over time.

For Pete's sake! Of course you can shoot too many does, it's area and site specific on how many to shoot or not to shoot.

I own 800 acres thats been in my family for 100 yrs. Until 10 years ago we could see 25-40 deer in any of the 15 two acre fields we have. 1/3 to 1/2 of those deer would be bucks of all sizes including whole bachelor groups of 3-4 year olds on occasion. Bodyweights were never an issue and we've killed deer as heavy as 250 with the average 4yr old weighing 185-195. In the last 10 years WW3 broke out on all sides of us(all landowners with over 1000 acres). I shoot wallhangers only and sometimes go years without taking the safety off. Neighbors always killed lots of bucks but now that does are being killed its ended our hunting as we once knew it. These days its 5-20 deer per plot. The Only bucks we see are young bucks. There are only two 4 yr olds on camera on the whole property and they are strictly nocturnal. (I run 11 cameras year round) There is no increase in rut intensity, no increase in body weight, no more bachelor groups and every doe is super spooky. I feel like if I had gone with the crowd and harvested does then I would have zero deer. If killing does has that kind of impact amongst 4 800+ acre landholders I cant imagine the impact it must have on the hunters that dont have large tracts. IMO the only thing doe killing is good for is cutting down on traffic accidents.

I thought the biggest advantage of taking does is that we had a buck/doe ratio in this state that was way out of proportion. I feel like things have improved overall. I'm not sure why this aspect is not being discussed.

^^^ YES!!! The QDMA provides the tools to make decisions and I don't know why it gets a bum rap for wanting to kill, kill, kill many does. If you need to kill some does... do it. If you don't think you need to kill any does, don't.

I'm a QDMA bible thumper and I am not for killing every doe I see. And besides... I'd rather bump up the carry capacity rather than kill does. I like seeing deer but I try to have a balance.

I am not condemning your hunting style and I am responding as offering maybe another way of thinking about hunting and the young people you influence will maybe have a different understanding and approach to hunting.

You said that you ONLY shoot "wallhangers" and that is fine and of course, "what's a wallhanger" but I would suggest that you consider the thrill of hunting and being able to kill a mature buck with a "non-wallhanging" rack. There's nothing wrong with shooting "any" mature buck and I would argue the fact that "wallhangers" should not be the only true measure of the enjoyment of the hunt.

I too hunt wallhangers but I give praise to God when I do kill a big'ol mature buck with a 100 or 115" rack that is not a "wallhanger" as he's a trophy too.

Please don't take this post wrong.... I want you to enjoy hunting and I'm not saying what you're doing is wrong but giving you something to think about. It's not a sin to pick the fruit when it's ripe even if the "fruit" ain't huge! Happy hunting!

Maybe the term wallhanger is misleading. i will shoot most 4+yr old bucks that i see. trouble is now it takes me years to see one.....including on camera. I'm all for picking the fruit.......all im saying is since the doe killing started the game has changed for me and its pretty obvious thats what changed it. This deer recruitment thing hasnt happened. Despite my numbers being lowered there arent new deer showing up

I did enjoy it more when you wanted to harvest a doe it had to be done with a bow or muzzleloader. Seen alot more deer then and had more fun too. I think we as hunters shoot too many does.
I shutter to think about the turkey population if we harvested hens.

I agree 100%

I like to see deer when I hunt and you do not have to kill so many does that you see very few deer to kill big bucks. Most people can't tell you how many does they seen because they count every deer they seen that they didn't see antlers on a doe. Even though a large portion of those were probably young bucks.

I agree with your perspective 100%. The overall population is in serious jeopardy not only because of trigger happy "hunters" but increasing coyotes as well. Something has got to change and SOON!

Here's the rub...Deer populations and sex ratios are site specific and no one-size fits all policy is ever going to work for an entire state, county, etc. That being said, every property manager, owner,or hunting group has the latitude to restrict, or increase the deer harvest (kill-for those who don't care for the term harvest) up to the legal limits of the State.
As hunters we all like to see deer, lots of them and often. However, depending on the personal preferences (larger deer or sheer numbers) of the above mentioned groups their goals may only be achieved by collective restraint and/or implementation of practices which promote their goals. It's pretty simple really. More deer = greater food requirement or substandard health for the herd. Fewer deer = less food requirement or increased health for the herd.
Now back to those collective goals I mentioned. Sometimes a compromise between the two extremes is the ticket. In any case I believe our State gives us an extraordinary amount of latitude to manage our deer expectations no matter what they might be, but these can only be realized through hunter actions and restraint, not additional legislation, or wishful thinking.

Greed get the best of people, the philosophy where i hunt is "if i dont kill it someone else will.... Makin it impossible for someone to let a young buck grow to maturity, Too many people on every fence row around every corner has that mentality on top of thinkin theres too many does, when in reality there isnt, killin deers to easy!! Letting them go to grow is the hard part, ive done it myself, ive shot the little bucks till i got to where it didnt mean anything to me, i felt like i wasnt doin anything, i let a couple go that was ok deer and i felt proud of myself for showing restraint, i started killing bigger bucks!! Started enjoyin watching deer interact in the environment! I honestly rather watch them now than kill them! Its still almost impossible to see a decent number of deer on any bit of land i have, early season i see decent numbers of deer,does,bucks little ones, but come january at the best part of the whole season there gone!! Dead! Peoples just not showin restraint, they need to on the small acreage lands, problem aint florida hunters its us alabama hunters who need to grow up!! Im 24 and i have a feeling that if this doesn't change that when i have kids there wont be anything to do but stay inside and play xbox! Im done with my rant! Sorry its long

Here it goes again, i only shoot the ones i want to mount..... Mature deer aint always mounters, and mounters arent always mature! Its hard to have anything with low numbers of does, and no bucks to keep them bred, the land i hunt isnt big i may have four different does on each 100acre track, the buck come and go like they always do, what people dont realize is they dont plan for next year! Im goin to use my land for ex: start out four does and two lil ones, neighbor wants some sausage bam!!! There goes two deer for next year possibly three!! Bucks start moving and im seeing some decent bucks, a couple nice bucks on cam id like to get a crack at and some i see that looks like some potential next year, i aint starving, and he isnt "all he can be", so i let him walk! Pretty little 8, Couple days later my potential next year gets shot! Neighbor has a buddy wantin some sausage!! So he kill the little 8, saw the horns off nail em to the barn. Three possibly four deer gone from next year, see how its growing??? Season goes by the big bucks are moving in!! Im a justa youngun tryin to tell my grown man of a neigbor to be patient, big one will come out! He cant lay off the trigger decent 2 year old six prolly around 40-50" dead!! Saw the horns off throw em in the barn. One more deer dead? Where they goin to come from next year!? They aint sproutin from them buck forage oats i slung out! They made a turd, and a house fir a black widow! Wont be nuthin left of the land! Cuz the ball does keep rollin! People want to know what the problem is!! Look in the mirror! It has been me!! It has been you!! Some of u it still is!! Qdm lies within your own mind it is what u make it!! Lets try n turn it around ourselves!