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Re: What if Ukraine...
[Re: goodman_hunter]
#3939894
07/13/23 05:43 PM
07/13/23 05:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,606
abolt300
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,606
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So you're saying you would of took your chances of crooked Joe not double crossing you and put yourself at the top of the Russian kill list over taking the easy money? I don't see it.
So Russia didn't want another NATO country on their borders? Ain't that exactly what they would have gotten if the SMO would have been successful? IE Poland. Russia isn't scared of NATO. Ukraine agreed to not join NATO, the country with the 3rd largest nuclear arsenal in the world gave up their nuclear arsenal and cluster munitions, agreed not to join NATO, gave Russia a lifetime lease for their naval base in Crimea and access to the black sea. The only thing they asked in return was for Russia not to invade. And they did, twice. Why would you think they're the innocent party here? You've blamed everyone else for greed except Russia and claimed they did it out of fear. Yeah, it's pretty obvious that Z chose to throw in with Joe. He was asked specifically, by a sitting US president, to provide the proof of the Biden/Burisma corruption, in 2019, prior to the election and Z made his choice on who he was standing with when he declined to provide it AND then shut down the investigation (see excerpt above of 2019 article by your favorite news source CNN). Russia may not be scared of NATO but they damn sure dont want a NATO country that can and would be used as a FOB, right up against their border if they can prevent it. Then the Biden admin began talking openly about Ukraine joining NATO, as did Z. All prior to the invasion. By the way, your president today, on TV, in front of the whole wide world said that Ukraine would be admitted to NATO and that it was absolutely going to happen. I'm not saying Russia is innocent by any means, but actions and words certainly played a major part, along with America being at its weakest point ever on the world stage. All these thing played major roles and parts in helping Putin decide to invade. Putin wants to put the old USSR back together, he's openly stated it and nobody is denying that fact and yes he's greedy. Most despot dictators are. He was given a reason and the US leadership was weak as well water and he went for it. Looked like z was hedging his bets. You see how hard they came after Trump at that point. Of course he backed off when they impeached trump. That was the point. Of course UA talked about joining NATO in 2019. By that point Russia had already broken the peace agreement so all bets were off. And Russia was getting ready to invade again. Who wouldn't ask for help.Its obvious Russia wasn't gonna stop. I don't know why you try to frame the argument like you gotta pick Putin or Biden. In reality it's. Do you support Russia or the guys they chose to invade. It's obvious you and several others support Russia. I'm rooting for the little guy who's fighting for their freedom against the commie invaders. It's pretty simple. Plus I'm not very good at contorting myself into a pretzel explaining how Russia is the victims in all this. Z went with where he felt he could get the most money. I dont think Russia wouldve done anything had Trump stayed in office. You dont have to pick Biden or Putin. They both suck and both hate both the United States and the US Constitution. I dang sure dont support Russia but I also do not support us using 100's of billions of US tax payer money (which we dont have) to finance their school yard boxing match. Like I said in an earlier post, the only positive thing that is coming out of the whole deal is that Putin is looking exceptionally weak on the world stage and burning through men and ammo, by not being able take Ukraine, but at the same time, the US is depleting our own armament which we very well may need in the near future, to deal with China. Not to mention the fact that Putin has Nukes and may get desperate enough to toss one, in which cased all bets are off and we'd be better not being involved in it at all. Kinda like an old guy told me once. "Son, dont stick your nose over the fence unless you're okay with getting it popped."
Last edited by abolt300; 07/13/23 05:45 PM.
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Re: What if Ukraine...
[Re: gwstang]
#3939912
07/13/23 06:26 PM
07/13/23 06:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,397
coffee county
goodman_hunter
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,397
coffee county
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Abolt
I'm not sure I agree with the idea that we're depleting our own armaments. Those things have a shelf life. What it looks like to me is we're handing out old munitions and replacing them with newer and more advanced weapons. I don't know if you've noticed but they're a ramping up production here. That means more jobs for Americans. Some right here in our state. Now countries around the world are also buying our weapons. Sure, there is a few modern systems going over there. That's necessary for real world battle field testing. Russia is a prime example of what happens when you fall behind the times in weapons tech. Most of the donated weapons ain't gonna help us much against China. Neutering Russia will though. Bigly.
Last edited by goodman_hunter; 07/13/23 06:26 PM.
For without victory, there is no survival
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Re: What if Ukraine...
[Re: gwstang]
#3940059
07/14/23 12:01 AM
07/14/23 12:01 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,606
abolt300
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,606
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When Odumbo consolidated the supply contracts/ mfg companies, he eliminated a lot of competition and innovation and also the ability to spool up and respond quickly. Bunch of ex generals and war machine execs have been talking about this very recently. We are definitely giving it away but we are also, currently, unable to produce replacements for it. Biden himself, on Tuesday, said he was ordering the manufacturers to begin producing again. People in the know say 12-18 months before they are tooled back up and replacing what we are giving away.
Everything we shot up is desert storm 1 & 2 was obsolete inventory. Neither war lasted long enough for us to have to break out “the good stuff”. Only difference then was that the new and improved replacement inventory was already sitting on the shelf, ready to go if needed. That’s not the case this time. We got some seriously bad stuff people have never seen on the modern battlefield but there is also a bunch of basic munitions we need, that we simply don’t currently have enough of, at our disposal, as a result of us giving it away.
Last edited by abolt300; 07/14/23 12:06 AM.
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Re: What if Ukraine...
[Re: abolt300]
#3940107
07/14/23 06:49 AM
07/14/23 06:49 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,397
coffee county
goodman_hunter
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,397
coffee county
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but there is also a bunch of basic munitions we need, that we simply don’t currently have enough of, at our disposal, as a result of us giving it away. Like what? The only thing I've seen that fits that description is stinger missiles.but that's 60-70 year old tech that haven't been produced for years. The javalin has replaced that.They spooled production up last year in Troy. We've gave away a lot of artillery shells. But I think they produce 20,000 a month currently and are set to triple the output. Himars? Old tech. But they're still producing with plans to ramp up. We have gave away any of our med to long range rockets.
Last edited by goodman_hunter; 07/14/23 06:50 AM.
For without victory, there is no survival
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